Somali Atheist; what made you leave Islam?

[Asma]

I may be speaking from a biased perspective, thus I you never take my word for anything. Nobody is immune to bias. However, I completely agree. The Hadith makes some insane and outlandish claims that simply cannot be taken literally. There's one for example that my head rolling. For example:



This is wrong emphatically wrong! I mean, its not really surprising that a seventh century person would state something like this.

Another example:



This completely contradictions the scientific evidence. Who discharges first has nothing to do with the DNA of the child. I may be wrong, however, I think it was the Ancient Greek scientists who thought like this. More evidence of copy and pasting.

However, without the Quran, how do you pray? It also has many scientific errors too like how how the Quran states the Earth was created before the heavens and it took longer create it as well, or maybe how stars are lamps that adorn the lowest heavens completely ignorant of the fact that those are stars more magnificent than ours that dwarf it in every way.

I agree that once you begin to doubt, no matter how much you try to quench the fire, it never goes away. Take me for example, I first began doubting at 16 and no matter what I did, I couldn't stop questioning the shit my teachers were telling me. I was very much like you.

I came across those two hadiths you mentioned and they were also contributed to me just giving up on hadiths all together. There was another one about how the bad omen lies in the women, horse and the house. You totally right it does sound like something a pagan arab from the 9th century would just make up and attribute to the prophet (saw).

Initially the thought about how to do prayer also come up when I was first seriously considering quran only Islam. However, the quran does actually outline how to pray, allah says to stand bow and prostrate. The quran also outlines how to do wudu before prayer. The reason I started this thread is because I was reading about how some ex muslims had this quran only phase and that was like a step to them giving up on islam all together and this really scared me. No offence to you, but I find the thought of atheism depressing, empty and just utterly devoid of any comfort. Again I don't wish to offend your atheism.

 

[McLovin]

Uhhh Surat al Qalam, muhammad got angry at a guy called Alwaled bin almughera the richest man in mecca father of khalid bin alwaled because he didn't believe that muhammad was a prophet, so we got these verses from allah.

"And do not obey every worthless habitual swearer

[And] scorner, going about with malicious gossip -

A preventer of good, transgressing and sinful,

Cruel, moreover, and an llegitimate pretender

Because he is a possessor of wealth and children,

When Our verses are recited to him, he says, "Legends of the former peoples."

We will brand him upon the snout."

In the fourth line they use "illegitimate pretender" to make it look good, but in the arabic the word "zaneem" is used which means bastard.

It's the biggest diss track in history

 

[habarjeclo1]

bullshit. I was always a devout muslim and defended islam until 1 and a half years ago. It comes down to evidence and a lot of inconsistencies with islam. All Abrahamic religions are said to be syncretic in concept, because of borrowed knowledge from ideologies such as gnosticism. Islam and all religions are fabrications with one sole purpose, unification and the strengthening of communities for a means of control. The other reason was its incompatibility with the scientific theory of evolution.

Your full shit

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[Prince of Lasanod]

You are right about humans making significant progress on morality in recent years, at least in terms of laws. For example a lot of Muslims like to argue that whilst Islam didn't ban slavery it encouraged the freeing of slaves and with that its gradual end. They also say that if Allah had ended slavery out right it would've caused social problems for slavers and slaves alike. However the west was able to end slavery almost abruptly and have been much more successful in making slavery illegal in their laws. On the other hand Muslim countries had to be almost dragged to stop slavery and some countries only stopped in latter part of the 20th century, which is very shameful. Today the only country where slavery is openly practised is Mauritania; a majority Muslim country. I also know that sex slaves still exist in western countries, however I am talking strictly about the laws and social norms of the country.

Say whatever you want about Islam, I don't care about what you believe in, but don't come with BS about how European people are morally superior people when they are the most genocidal race in human history.

Please gtfo with that shit.

 

[Asma]

Say whatever you want about Islam, I don't care about what you believe in, but don't come with BS about how European people are morally superior people when they are the most genocidal race in human history.

Please gtfo with that shit.

I honestly do not believe at all that Europeans are superior at all. They have committed and continue to commit some of the worst crimes ever. Like I said I just meant that Muslims are suppose to better than gaalo, but you have to admit its taken us a lot longer to outlaw slavery in our law books. I am not saying anything against Islam, I am Muslim and I believe Allah to be a merciful and just God.

PS, there is no need to be rude and tell me to gtfo.

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

I honestly do not believe at all that Europeans are superior at all. They have committed and continue to commit some of the worst crimes ever. Like I said I just meant that Muslims are suppose to better than gaalo, but you have to admit its taken us a lot longer to outlaw slavery in our law books. I am not saying anything against Islam, I am Muslim and I believe Allah to be a merciful and just God.

PS, there is no need to be rude and tell me to gtfo.

Slavery is not haram first and foremost, and Islam did not come to eradicate slavery. Actually slavery was around in most Muslim countries including Somalia just 100 years ago. Though, it is recommended to free slaves.

The difference is that the Europeans slavery was a racial one. European scientists believed they were the most superior and purest race (hence the colour white) and that African people were the most savage, beast like, and dirtiest (hence the colour used to refer them is black).

 

[McLovin]

Initially the thought about how to do prayer also come up when I was first seriously considering quran only Islam. However, the quran does actually outline how to pray, allah says to stand bow and prostrate. The quran also outlines how to do wudu before prayer. The reason I started this thread is because I was reading about how some ex muslims had this quran only phase and that was like a step to them giving up on islam all together and this really scared me. No offence to you, but I find the thought of atheism depressing, empty and just utterly devoid of any comfort. Again I don't wish to offend your atheism.

For me it went like Sunni - Sufi - Quranist - Deist and now my final form agnostic atheist. I think you should decide what's more important to you. The search for truth or the comfort in lies which comes with a lot of baggage like unnecessary guilt, constant shame, basically being a slave to your dying breath because you're scared of burning in a non existent pit. I would argue that is more depressing

 

[The_Cosmos]

Slavery in Islam is not and was not on par with European/US slavery.

In Muslim countries there were Turkish slaves, Arab slaves, Black slaves, European slaves etc if you weren't Muslim you were expected to pay a jizya or risk losing your wife and kids to the Muslim State. Islam is an expansionist religion but it is not a RACIST religion. Don't mention Saudi Arabia, it is a polity full of fat drunk women beaters who use religion as a cash cow.

There are entire sections that studies the "fiqh" of slavery. They had rights and if the slave was mistreated and complained the Caliph could free them himself.

What you had in the West was point blank racism where the strong preyed on the weak. The Black's had their ancestry wiped out and the children taken away from their mothers so they grow up knowing nothing other than slavery. The native Indians basically went through genocide.

What absolute garbage!! The majority of slaves were black. That's a bloody fact. The Zanj rebellion is testament to that. The majority of the slaves who rebelled were black.

if you weren't Muslim you were expected to pay a jizya or risk losing your wife and kids to the Muslim State.

Oh my days!! How can you flaunt this about as if it's a decent thing.


That's bloody evil mate! And yet you're presenting the Muslims as having a moral high ground over the west.

There are entire sections that studies the "fiqh" of slavery. They had rights and if the slave was mistreated and complained the Caliph could free them himself.

That's nothing more than prattle because the stark realities were that slaves were subjected to brutal treatment. I mean, much of them were fucking sex slaves!!

In theory, slavery in Islamic law does not have a racial or color component, although this has not always been the case in practice.

The reality of slavery in the Islamic was no different than that of Europe. At least, Europe recognised the wrongs of its actions.

Many of the Islamic caliphates, like the Ummayad, had Arab supremacist mindset which they often enacted. In fact, many Islamic scholars like Ibn Tabari reiterated the Arab supremacy over all people.

 

[ebimomo]

I'm not the one who pretends to have some sort of divine knowledge that I never earned by was passed on from my parents. "Islam is the truth!!" You lot love saying, but how do you know this?! Where is the evidence??

I never, not once, thought I was more intelligent than you lot. A scientists affirming our beliefs is testament to the evidence that he has provided to back them up not just blind following of what daddy and mummy said were the truths. If that's not the case, then I dare you to prove that Solomon spoke to ants, Moses split the sea, Noah's flood occurred, Muhammad split the moon and flew to heaven on a winged horse and so on. I'm not condescending, it's you who is trying to protect your adult fairytales from critical scrutiny.

In the Quran, Allah is practically dissing the non believers by tainting them with hell and comparing them to animals, but hey... I'm the condescending one because I dared challenge the validity of its claims.

Actually, I was agnostic at one point in my life so no I didn't "inherit" Islam like you seem to be suggesting so please refrain from making any more assumptions about how I came to Islam. Islam is the truth to me, I don't care what it is to you.

Hm, it sure is strange how out of all atheists on this forum you feel as though I was speaking about you? Anyway, the atheists on here love to put down Muslims ever so subtly. You scoff when somebody speaks on how great Islam is, you link the belief in Islam to a lack of education. If that isn't the epitome of a 'smarter-than-thou' attitude, I wonder what is.

lmaooooo, what do you want me to do? Turn back time?
Also, if you're so sure that there is no higher power, that there is no God, no divine being then prove it and don't give me that "burden of proof lies with you" bs.


Ah, what a one-dimensional way of looking at the Quran.

You need a wake up call.

 

[Asma]

For me it went like Sunni - Sufi - Quranist - Deist and now my final form agnostic atheist. I think you should decide what's more important to you. The search for truth or the comfort in lies which comes with a lot of baggage like unnecessary guilt, constant shame, basically being a slave to your dying breath because you're scared of burning in a non existent pit. I would argue that is more depressing

I find that believing in a Allah brings me comfort in this life and it helps me get through the hurdles of life. I don't like the people who shove Islam down the throats of others. I hope in that all Somalis irregardless of their beliefs can live openly and harmoniously in Somalia one day insha allah.

 

[McLovin]

I find that believing in a Allah brings me comfort in this life and it helps me get through the hurdles of life. I don't like the people who shove Islam down the throats of others. I hope in that all Somalis irregardless of their beliefs can live openly and harmoniously in Somalia one day insha allah.

Amiin

 

[Asma]

Amiin

lol, now you're just mocking me

 

[The_Cosmos]

I came across those two hadiths you mentioned and they were also contributed to me just giving up on hadiths all together. There was another one about how the bad omen lies in the women, horse and the house. You totally right it does sound like something a pagan arab from the 9th century would just make up and attribute to the prophet (saw).

Initially the thought about how to do prayer also come up when I was first seriously considering quran only Islam. However, the quran does actually outline how to pray, allah says to stand bow and prostrate. The quran also outlines how to do wudu before prayer. The reason I started this thread is because I was reading about how some ex muslims had this quran only phase and that was like a step to them giving up on islam all together and this really scared me. No offence to you, but I find the thought of atheism depressing, empty and just utterly devoid of any comfort. Again I don't wish to offend your atheism.

Hey, don't worry about offending me I rarely every get offended. Atheism is merely just a lack of belief in any deities and thus nothing you can say would be offensive to atheism. Atheism is just a definition. It also clears the point of it being devoid of any comfort. Believe it or not, I find atheism comforting not because it's an ideology because it's not, but because it's based on reality. When asked about the question of God, I'll say I don't know if such a being exists but if that question translates to belief, I'll say I don't believe such a being exists on the grounds that there are no evidence.

Look, if I'm honest, I agree the Hadith doesn't make any sense but neither does the Quran and, in my opinion, it doesn't paint good picture of Allah. Allah is a collectivist God when it comes to punishing people. He collectively punished the citizens of ancient Egypt by punishing the nation for enslaving the Jews (no historical evidence for any enslavement). He also, collectively flooded the Earth because a few people refused to accept Noah. He again destroyed Sodom and Gomora because a few people were supposedly raping people. There's no way you can rationally claim that everyone in that city was a man and a rapist, there must of been innocent men, women and children as well as the elderly. The Quran also supports a geocentric view of the world.

 

[Asma]

Hey, don't worry about offending me I rarely every get offended. Atheism is merely just a lack of belief in any deities and thus nothing you can say would be offensive to atheism. Atheism is just a definition. It also clears the point of it being devoid of any comfort. Believe it or not, I find atheism comforting not because it's an ideology because it's not, but because it's based on reality. When asked about the question of God, I'll say I don't know if such a being exists but if that question translates to belief, I'll say I don't believe such a being exists on the grounds that there are no evidence.

Look, if I'm honest, I agree the Hadith doesn't make any sense but neither does the Quran and, in my opinion, it doesn't paint good picture of Allah. Allah is a collectivist God when it comes to punishing people. He collectively punished the citizens of ancient Egypt by punishing the nation for enslaving the Jews (no historical evidence for any enslavement). He also, collectively flooded the Earth because a few people refused to accept Noah. He again destroyed Sodom and Gomora because a few people were supposedly raping people. There's no way you can rationally claim that everyone in that city was a man and a rapist, there must of been innocent men, women and children as well as the elderly. The Quran also supports a geocentric view of the world.

The points you made are logical, which is why I said once you start questioning one aspect of Islam like the validity of hadiths, it's really difficult to to just stop. However my previous point still stands about how Allah brings comfort to my life. One last question before I head off for sleep, how did your family take your lack of belief?

 

[OmarLittle]

They won't admit it, but their main reason is: Islam's bad reputation and terrorism.

Wow, I expected a better response from you. Shame.

 

[McLovin]

lol, now you're just mocking me

No I fully concur tho. Amiin is just what came to mind when I saw how much truth being dropped in your post

It is also a dream of mine that somalis can live together and learn to respect differences in beliefs. Religous people like you are quite alright with me. It's the ones who wish to impose their single worldview and it's rules on others that are the problem rn in our community

 

[Jujuman]

I knew the Muslims wouldn't hold back when I initially started typing my response. Slavery is human ownership, I believe human ownership is bad under all circumstances.

The Europeans were completely wrong for enslaving people on the basis of race no-one is disputing that.

The Muslim empires were also wrong for enslaving people on the basis of religion.

Whatever the motivations, human ownership is NEVER right.

 

[The_Cosmos]

Actually, I was agnostic at one point in my life so no I didn't "inherit" Islam like you seem to be suggesting so please refrain from making any more assumptions about how I came to Islam. Islam is the truth to me, I don't care what it is to you.

Hm, it sure is strange how out of all atheists on this forum you feel as though I was speaking about you? Anyway, the atheists on here love to put down Muslims ever so subtly. You scoff when somebody speaks on how great Islam is, you link the belief in Islam to a lack of education. If that isn't the epitome of a 'smarter-than-thou' attitude, I wonder what is.

lmaooooo, what do you want me to do? Turn back time?
Also, if you're so sure that there is no higher power, that there is no God, no divine being then prove it and don't give me that "burden of proof lies with you" bs.


Ah, what a one-dimensional way of looking at the Quran.

You need a wake up call.

So, you went from questioning to God to believing that Muhammad flew to heaven on a winged horse? I mean, how does one justify such a position? I also find it interesting that out of all the religions in the world, you settled with the one you were born with. I'm going to refrain from any judgement.

The reason why I reacted to your comment, is because you mentioned atheism in a general perspective and thus I found it appropriate to react. If that's not what you meant, you should've been more specific.

There is a link between education and atheism, simply denying it and calling it us derogatory words is a sign of your own insecurities. The studies are general and they claim everyone who's religious are lacking education, it just states that the most developed and educated nations are the least religious whilst the undeveloped and least educated are the most religious. That common knowledge.

You're showing your own ignorance when you conflate demanding evidence for "turning back time". Asking for evidence just says give me something I can critically analyse. So, evidence does literally turn back time. By your logic, we can't know anything from the past to be true.

About the burden of proof, I don't KNOW if a god exists or doesn't as that is a question of knowledge but to stay logically consistent, I would say the same for all gods and even Santa Claus. However, as you're the one who makes the claim, you're obliged to back it up. I mean, in the judicial system the accuser is required to defend their claim through evidence. Nobody demands the defending person to provide evidence to exonerate themselves. Thus to stay logically consistent, you cannot bend the rules and say that since you're talking about my God, you must prove that he doesn't exist. That's bogus as it presumes I stand on gnostic position when I don't.

 

[ebimomo]

So, you went from questioning to God to believing that Muhammad flew to heaven on a winged horse? I mean, how does one justify such a position? I also find it interesting that out of all the religions in the world, you settled with the one you were born with. I'm going to refrain from any judgement.

The reason why I reacted to your comment, is because you mentioned atheism in a general perspective and thus I found it appropriate to react. If that's not what you meant, you should've been more specific.

There is a link between education and atheism, simply denying it and calling it us derogatory words is a sign of your own insecurities. The studies are general and they claim everyone who's religious are lacking education, it just states that the most developed and educated nations are the least religious whilst the undeveloped and least educated are the most religious. That common knowledge.

You're showing your own ignorance when you conflate demanding evidence for "turning back time". Asking for evidence just says give me something I can critically analyse. So, evidence does literally turn back time. By your logic, we can't know anything from the past to be true.

About the burden of proof, I don't KNOW if a god exists or doesn't as that is a question of knowledge but to stay logically consistent, I would say the same for all gods and even Santa Claus. However, as you're the one who makes the claim, you're obliged to back it up. I mean, in the judicial system the accuser is required to defend their claim through evidence. Nobody demands the defending person to provide evidence to exonerate themselves. Thus to stay logically consistent, you cannot bend the rules and say that since you're talking about my God, you must prove that he doesn't exist. That's bogus as it presumes I stand on gnostic position when I don't.

Yes, what is there to justify?
You keep making these assumptions about me and it's getting irritating. As a matter of fact, I actually tried to study other religions from Judaism to Taoism, I actually bothered to seek out answers and it led me back to Islam. So I ask you once again to not make assumptions about me or how any Muslim came to Islam at that.

So show me proof for this link? Where are your sources? Bill Maher's youtube channel?
Wait wait, you've got me wrong because I explicitly stated that I disliked the atheists on this website, I didn't say I disliked atheists in general, that would be silly of me. Derogatory words lmao where?

Your questions were irrational and illogical to begin with so don't call somebody ignorant for giving sarcastic responses.
???? How is that my logic at all? You're twisting my words to suit your argument which comes as no surprise.
How is the judicial system relevant at all? lmao, what a poor example. Come on sis.

 

[rational]

circa 7th century - A newly acquired slave meets his new slavemaster

Slave owner: Hello my boy

Slave: I am older than you though?

Slave owner: You right, but u still my boi though. So are u Muslim? You should think about being Muslim.

Slave: Will I be automatically freed if I become Muslim? If so, I'll convert on the spot.

Slave owner : What makes you think that? Look - if I do a sin, say intentionally skip a day of fasting - God said I should free a slave. But I never skip fasting so don't count on it.

Slave: What happens if I just run away?

Slave owner: Hey now, don't get any ideas. For one God said all your prayers, even ones made as a Muslim slave, would be denied until you return to your rightful owner - that would be moi. God is cool like that. Amiin.

Slave: I guess I am resigned to this fate.

Slave owner: - you are catching on quick. House rule#1 is no stealing. Even if you see a bag of gold unattended - hands to yourself. We cut off the limbs of those who steal another man's property in the Dunya.

Slave: is that so.... Can I be straight with you?

Slave owner: Sure - I'm swell guy, you can be honest.

Slave : Aren't you stealing my life and those of my fellow slaves? Surely our lives are worth more than mere material possessions - and no amount of severed limbs or money will ever be recompense for even 1 life wasted in bondage.

Slave owner: Who's limbs we talking about? I mean if you say it like that - hold up hold up - did I tell you about the 2x rewards.

Slave: 2x rewards?

Slave owner : 2x redeemable in Heaven for slaves that stick with their Day 1 masters! Trust me those points are going to be so worth it. There will be 7 levels - VIP spaces and everything. Heaven is going to be lit - not like fire fire lit, that's Hell - but lit nonetheless. Ain't nobody do incentive plans like God...

Slave: tbh I don't really care for these imaginary points...

Slave owner : Don't be such a debbie downer - let's be friends here and in Heaven! Who knows I might one day actually free you. I promise you I won't do you like Abdullah did his slave.

Slave : What did Abdullah do to his slave?

Slave owner: He freed his slave but forgot he owed a debt. Can't go freeing slaves when you owe a debt around here. Especially when that's your only asset. Basically the manumission was undone and the unfortunate slave was sold to settle the debt. Really complicated stuff, the Prophet himself had to get involved. But you have nothing to fear my boy, I have an excellent financial portfolio and no debts to speak of.

Slave: I'm still going make a run for it...

Slave owner : And I thought we were making progress...

Fin.