Somalia should never be fully ruled by the law of Allah

[Killamenace78]

Typing this in your apartment located in a secular country while you receive welfare

 

[Kisame]

I want a government where me and my gaal peeps can walk around unharmed. I can be a strong ethnic nationalist if you want me too but forcing me to practice is where I draw the line.

Not trying to get threatened with jail time just because I don't pray. I also don't want to be surrounded by a bunch of low IQ @Nin123 variants.

 

[Laiss]

It's ok to dream.

It's not a dream; it's only a matter of time. The separation of state and religion will happen, and with the rise of globalization, it's only a matter of centuries before religions as we know them will cease to exist. Just a few decades ago an ex muzzie Saudi, openly gay Somalis, etc were unheard of. It’s only a matter of time
More of us @Kisame @Farah717 will be around tehe

 

[Kisame]

It's not a dream; it's only a matter of time. The separation of state and religion will happen, and with the rise of globalization, it's only a matter of centuries before religions as we know them will cease to exist. Just a few decades ago an ex muzzie Saudi, openly gay Somalis, etc were unheard of. It’s only a matter of time
More of us @Kisame @Farah717 will be around tehe

Not trying to be associated with @Farah717. that nigga kind of odd

 

[Omar del Sur]

What does shariah mean tho?

In Shafi/Maliki/Hanbali madhab, those who miss their salah out of laziness are to be executed. So should somalis implement this law in which anyone missing salah out of laziness is to be killed? Should CCTV be installed in public to monitor whether people are praying when outside, and an intelligence agency to track it? Is that shariah?

Did Rasul Allah ﷺ set up an intelligence agency to spy on people who don't pray?

Of course there were no CCTVs but there actually was at least one sahabi who served as what we might today call an intelligence agent.

A purely Islamic system is not a liberal democracy but it isn't a North Korean mass surveillance state either.

Zayd ibn Wahb reported: A man was brought to Ibn Mas’ud, may Allah be pleased with him, and it was said, “This man was found with wine dripping from his beard!” Ibn Mas’ud said, “Verily, we have been prohibited from spying, but if he shows it to us publicly, we will hold him accountable.”

Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4890

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Arna’ut

It is also narrated in al-Saheehayn from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: ‘Beware of suspicion, for suspicion is the falsest of speech. Do not eavesdrop; do not spy on one another; do not envy one another; do not forsake one another; do not hate one another. Be, O slaves of Allah, brothers.”

Al-Bukhaari, 5144; Muslim, 2563.

Prohibition against spying on others - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

In truth, having some sort of dystopian 1984 type mass surveillance state... it would be unislamic.

there was a sahabi who was like an intelligence agent- but he would do things like spy on the enemy army... try to find out information about them. however, to my knowledge, he was used against kaffirs- not against Muslims. he did spy on kaffirs and I believe some known munafiqeen- but I don't think he spied on Muslims.

in a modern state, I imagine... well- imo there should be an intelligence agency. but the job of the intelligence agency should be to counter things like... people conspiring to assassinate the ruler, things like that. it should be spying on for example known agents of kaffirs... the state finds out for example some person is being paid by zionists to work as an agent... that's the kind of thing the intelligence agency should go after. not things like drinking alcohol or not praying.

If I ever become the Muslim ruler- I think absolutely I'm spending a bajjillion on my spy agency to keep tabs on people trying to plot against my government. they might visit my enemies in the middle of the night (after I've gathered info to prove they deserve it).

ok but... any ruler is going to be concerned about plotters trying to overthrow him... but I don't think any Muslim ruler in their right mind is going to use the spy agency to spy on people not praying or drinking alcohol in their house. and if they did, I believe it would be contrary to Islam.

 

[Aiman12]

only diaspora who have never been to somalia or a muslim country advocate for sharia from the safety of the west truth is most people are terrified of sharia and do not want it. having your hands cut off for something as little as stealing or being killed for shaving your beard among other things is way too much

 

[Yami]

No country today implements sharia. They might source some of their laws from sharia or say Quran is their constitution but their system is mostly napoleonic or British in structure and the facade of the shariah is used as legitimatising tool for some. (btw I’m not saying there is no muslim country)

Shariah is an entire seperate paradigm that is characterised by robust laws and a clear separation of powers between legislative, executive and judiciary. Shariah means that sovereignty lies with God and not with the state and all authorities are accountable to Allah. Shariah is an independent judiciary outside the purview of the government both legally and financially. Shariah is a legislative occupied by Allah’s words and the prophets sunnah and is authoritative (not influenced by another branch of power) and it seeks to create a moral subject. Shariah is a communal law that is deducible from binding higher principles completely different from a system of law that is ‘by the people for the people’. Shariah is something that achieves true representation. Anyone can be a qadi or a mufti and fatwa provided they have the requisite knowledge whether they be from a lower class or a upper class. Shariah is much deeper than some laws it’s a entirely structural concept it’s fundamentally different and opposed to modernity in terms of what it aims to achieve.

How is any of this oppressive?

Isn't Brunei run by sharia nowadays

 

[Gacmeey]

Isn't Brunei run by sharia nowadays

No they source some of their laws from the sharia but they are run using the British system of law

 

[error1]

Secular, no countries government should be religious oriented considering that people of the same ethnic group can have different religions.

But at the same time I don’t want the degenaracy that the west has nowadays.

 

[Omar del Sur]

only diaspora who have never been to somalia or a muslim country advocate for sharia from the safety of the west truth is most people are terrified of sharia and do not want it. having your hands cut off for something as little as stealing or being killed for shaving your beard among other things is way too much

being killed for shaving your beard? is that a Hindu law? I don't know of any religion mandating the death penalty for shaving your beard... maybe it's something the khawarij would do

 

[Keep it a boqol]

What does shariah mean tho?

In Shafi/Maliki/Hanbali madhab, those who miss their salah out of laziness are to be executed. So should somalis implement this law in which anyone missing salah out of laziness is to be killed? Should CCTV be installed in public to monitor whether people are praying when outside, and an intelligence agency to track it? Is that shariah?

your acting like muslims will be blood thirsty savages hunting down fornicators, gays and people not praying by breaking in their door and interrogating them

As long as people are keeping their kufr to themselves and arnt making a mass scene in public spewing herasay or protesting by not praying how would we know if they intentionally miss prayers or not for them to be executed

 

[Omar del Sur]

only diaspora who have never been to somalia or a muslim country advocate for sharia from the safety of the west truth is most people are terrified of sharia and do not want it. having your hands cut off for something as little as stealing or being killed for shaving your beard among other things is way too much

also... I think this is going to vary by country. there might be countries like Albania where the people identify as Muslim but many of them are not actually going to believe in the shariah. but I have a feeling people in countries such as Yemen and Pakistan very much do indeed believe in shariah. the poorer countries where people are more religious I think many will believe in shariah. but then if they become affluent, they may become liberal and stop taking the dīn as seriously.

I have never been to Somalia but I have a feeling... that there is a substantial number of people there who indeed believe in shariah.... but even if the people there didn't- in places like Yemen and Pakistan they don't? I believe there are many Muslims who believe in shariah. And who doesn't believe in shariah isn't a Muslim.

 

[Gacmeey]

Secular, no countries government should be religious oriented considering that people of the same ethnic group can have different religions.

But at the same time I don’t want the degenaracy that the west has nowadays.

Other religions can have their own religious laws and operate within their own ‘sharia’. Religious violence that resulted in the creation of the secular is purely a European disease and isn’t part of the history of Islamic society so why do we need to adopt their solutions?

 

[Aseer]

The best ideology is somali Islamic Capitalism/Democracy/Fedarilsm

 

[Galool]

The people in Somalia would overwhelmingly support implementing Islam fully.

Anonymous kafirs opinions on here is irrelevant. How do we know you are even Somali?

 

[ina-cilmi]

murtads in this thread talking about how somalia should be ruled in the future as if these freaks are a part of the team lol

 

[thisthatone]

Lmao at all these youth who grew up in the west, and all its freedoms wanting a taliban style government ruled by religious law. Religion is fine and beautiful but has no place in government the two spheres should not mix because one will corrupt the other just look at what the taliban is doing to their country banning women from education, from showing their faces, banning their voices those men hate women, and that is unislamic, and some of you want that for somali women who are known to be the forefront of our families.

 

[World]

your acting like muslims will be blood thirsty savages hunting down fornicators, gays and people not praying by breaking in their door and interrogating them

As long as people are keeping their kufr to themselves and arnt making a mass scene in public spewing herasay or protesting by not praying how would we know if they intentionally miss prayers or not for them to be executed

Where did I say that? I simply gave the ruling of 3/4 of the madhab, which is that those who miss salah out of laziness even one salah should be executed, if they’ve been warned before. As for your example of breaking in their doors and interrogating them, did i say that? My example was what if people in public were to be observed with CCTV, i.e. boys outside playing football. If the time of salah comes, the adhaan is heard, they don’t go pray and then the time of salah ends and they are outside the entire time playing football.

“As long as people are keeping their kufr to themselves”, well if they are missing salah at home that’s one thing but they’re missing salah outside publicly hence they’re not keeping it to themselves. So what if a state saying they’re ruling by shariah started executing those boys playing football ? Would that be correct ?

 

[Gacmeey]

Lmao at all these youth who grew up in the west, and all its freedoms wanting a taliban style government ruled by religious law. Religion is fine and beautiful but has no place in government the two spheres should not mix because one will corrupt the other just look at what the taliban is doing to their country banning women from education, from showing their faces, banning their voices those men hate women, and that is unislamic, and some of you want that for somali women who are known to be the forefront of our families.

No one said we want a taliban style government for Somalia. We used have sharia in Somalia and the Muslim world until colonisation and it did not look like Afghanistan. I mean the first chapter of the oldest surviving Islamic legal document talks about wudhu, second chapter is about prayer, third is fasting. It is only until chapter 27 where the things the west would consider law like inheritance and hudud are talked about. The Islamic concept of law is more than just a set of laws and punishments, it’s a moral framework that seeks to create a moral subject.

As for the corruption of religion by the government is impossible under the sharia since the religion is under the guardianship of the ulama who are independent from the government both financially and legally and the executive has no legislative power. The ulama can also not be influenced by the executive since the office of the ulama is a decentralised concept whereby the only requirement is sufficient knowledge.

 

[_Yusuf_]

murtads in this thread talking about how somalia should be ruled in the future as if these freaks are a part of the team lol

They'd get head tapped the second the mention their a kaffir