Somalia should never be fully ruled by the law of Allah
- Thread starter Fobnimo Till I Dhimo
- Start date
Outside of the obvious i.e deriving the social/moral framework from the Quran - I don't think there is any system of government strictly outlined in Islam. Would it be a democracy? Monarchy? Chiefdom.... The age old question of how power will be distributed?
That seems to be whats important in Somalia (and other places too)
That seems to be whats important in Somalia (and other places too)
are you mentally challenged? you want people to be dismembered for the lowest form of crime? stop advocating for sharia for countries you dont live in, i can already tell you are diaspora you doqon. not even taliban have gone this far
Steal what? I don’t think in the entirety of mainstream Islamic legal history that anyone had a hand cut off for petty theft. I also wonder why sharia is always reduced to a set of laws in these discussions? It’s much more than that
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No. I’m advocating for a system where the ulama are independent from government both legally and financially and interpret the Quran and Sunnah and derive rulings that are appropriate for each context and scenario and those rulings are binding to the society.
As for when actual views of a Madhab are taken, show me where someone’s hand is cut off for petty theft because that what his phrasing implies when he says ‘lowest form of crime’. For a thief’s hand to be cut off it must meet a ratio legalis which are :
(1) the object stolen must have been taken away by stealth
(2) it must be of a minimum value
(3) it must in no way be the property of the thief
(4) it must be taken out of custody
(5) the thief must have full legal capacity
If one of those conditions is missing, cutting the hands cannot be applied. Do I have a problem with this? No, I don’t.
Not all theft is done in secrecy. That’s why we have the phrase daylight robbery.
Minimum value would be in accordance to the social context and situation and is something that the scholars of a society will set guidelines for and decide upon. It will certainly never be bagels though.
If theft has reached a level where a had punishment is specified. It is not petty theft or the lowest form of crime. It is punishable by cutting off the hands.
Fundamentally, whatever the scholars decide is appropriate, I have no qualms with it provided the scholarly class is a decentralised, open-access and independent institution.
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Your posts seem to present individual reasons for not implementing Shariah law, but you avoid directly stating that you oppose it. It's like making a list of complaints about children—like them being loud, smelly, or expensive—then acting outraged if someone suggests that you don’t want kids, saying, "That’s not what I said!"
Now, let's address the main point of your argument: that under Shariah law, we are mandated to execute those who miss prayers.
To start, neither the Qur'an nor the Hadiths explicitly mentions execution for missing prayer for any reason. The Qur'an emphasizes the importance of prayer and its observance but does not prescribe any worldly punishment, let alone execution, for missing prayers out of laziness. The focus is more on spiritual consequences rather than legal or physical punishments. Similarly, the Hadiths, which record the sayings and actions of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), do not advocate for harsh penalties for those who miss prayers out of negligence.
Your argument hinges on a single passage from a Shafi'i book of Fiqh. It would be arrogant to tackle this without the requisite Islamic knowledge, so I am not arguing against the logic of section of the book, but your argument that implementing this or not means adhering to sharia (or not) but let's clarify: Shariah law is rooted in the Qur'an and the Hadiths. Books of Fiqh are complementary works by great scholars. Your argument seems to suggest that because there is no absolute uniformity in every single issue, it is impossible to choose the correct version of Shariah. But it’s important to understand that the various Madhabs (schools of thought) do not consider each other outside the fold of Islam. Islam is, in a sense, decentralized, with no single authority like a Pope. Within the boundaries of the Qur'an and Hadiths, different scholars may reach different conclusions. This diversity is necessary because believers live in a wide variety of circumstances. As long as a ruling does not contradict the Quran or the hadiths, any argument that a ruling is against the spirit of sharia is false.
Even in your source—a snippet of a screenshot—the same paragraph mentions repentance as a direct remedy, alongside catching up on missed prayers. So even your harshest source suggests that repentance is a possibility.
Your reasoning follows a simplistic "X means Y" logic, which doesn’t account for the complexity of Islamic jurisprudence.
Let's consider historical precedent: has there ever been a case in any Islamic society, past or present, where someone was executed specifically for lazily neglecting prayer? Even in extremist-controlled areas like ISIS-held Syria or Al-Shabaab-run Somalia, this has never occurred.
Are you saying all these groups, historical and modern, are applying Shariah wrong? No, they aren't. Shariah is based on the Qur'an and Hadiths, with Fiqh books serving as supportive works to help judges interpret and apply the law.
Your argument is built on a fundamental misunderstanding of what Shariah is and the difference between it and the intellectual contributions of various scholars over the centuries.
I’m not arguing for or against execution; I’m arguing that whatever your take on this issue, it doesn’t mean that a state is or isn’t run by Shariah law. A state could approach prayer as a personal matter, issue warnings in public spaces, or even enforce it harshly, but none of these scenarios would negate the state’s adherence to Shariah.
It’s clear where you stand: you believe Somalia should not implement Shariah law. Own up to that, but understand that this position may make your words less persuasive to many believers in this thread because, for every Muslim, the desire to implement Shariah law should be evident. There’s more respect for a secularist who openly states their position, allowing for honest debate, than for a believer who obscures their true beliefs.
Regarding my previous post, it was a response to the overall discussion, not aimed at anyone in particular. If you’re not an atheist, you shouldn’t have been offended. If I meant to call you an atheist, I would have done so directly. That’s why I didn’t quote you or anyone else. If anyone has a reason to be upset, it’s @JustSomeGuy whose post clearly gave off an atheist vibe to me, and even him I did not wish to call an atheist.
I dont know why non believers care so much for somalia, Somali and Muslim are 2 inseparable things just move on and become assimilated.
We should be fully under sharia with the only exception being that Somalia remain for Somalis. if we fully implemented Islamic law any muslim would be entitled to our lands which is something I cannot agree with when we are guests in their countries. Reciprocity is important to me. If every muslim country opened up in this way I would have no issue but until then no.
Al shabaab letting men from ivory coast iyo mozambique into our country give them 4 somali wives and allow them to lead other somalis but to go to their country you need Visa aw hell nah
Al shabaab letting men from ivory coast iyo mozambique into our country give them 4 somali wives and allow them to lead other somalis but to go to their country you need Visa aw hell nah
Gojo Satoru
Staff Member
Somalia needs a ruler like kim jong un
al-Mu'tamid المعتمد
عِشْ مَا شِئْتَ فَإِنَّكَ مَيِّتٌ
May Allah guide you.
al-Mu'tamid المعتمد
عِشْ مَا شِئْتَ فَإِنَّكَ مَيِّتٌ
A good deterrent. Also, it's not only the diaspora who think like this; everyone who calls themselves a Muslim and submits their will to Allah and His legislation does as well. The only mentally challenged is you.
are you even reading what you are saying?
you, a diaspora who likely lives in his small dinky apartment in Bristol is advocating for sharia in a country you don't live in. asking for sharia while enjoying the benefits of the "kafir" west absolutely shameless and the height of hypocrisy
al-Mu'tamid المعتمد
عِشْ مَا شِئْتَ فَإِنَّكَ مَيِّتٌ
Wdym I would also want Sharia here. Also i'm not from Bristol.are you even reading what you are saying?
al-Mu'tamid المعتمد
عِشْ مَا شِئْتَ فَإِنَّكَ مَيِّتٌ
Also, the way you type, are you 12? Who am I even talking to?
why bring up the way i type? or can you not argue your negative iq points anymore
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