Somalis were Sufi and Shafi’i for over 700 years, how did Wahhabism/Salafism wipe it out in 2 generations?

[Indeed]

Definitely worshiping graves is a huge shirk!!!!!

 

[Moholin01]

I’m bewildered how our nation of 25 million from NFD to Djibouti went from Sufi/Shafi’i to Salafi/Wahhabi between 1990 to 2010, when we have been Sufi/Shafi’i for at least 700 years(Ibn Battuta journey from Zeila to Mogadishu)?

How is this even possible? What happened to Sufi/Shafi’i Sheikhs that existed before 1990? How did they get replaced? How much money did Saudi Arabia pump into spreading their ideology? An ideological change this large in such a short time span across a whole nation is almost unheard of. Now our country will have problems for next 50 years due to this violent ideology.

the problem is that Somalis never had an intellectual tradition. There are no famous Somali Shafi’i Theologians and scholars. So it’s very easy for regressive versions of Islam to take route. Plus, war completely distabilised the country. I noticed extremist salami ideology is usually found in large bouncers in war torn regions like sham, Chechnya, Yemen and Iraq.

 

[Indeed]

the problem is that Somalis never had an intellectual tradition. There are no famous Somali Shafi’i Theologians and scholars. So it’s very easy for regressive versions of Islam to take route. Plus, war completely distabilised the country. I noticed extremist salami ideology is usually found in large bouncers in war torn regions like sham, Chechnya, Yemen and Iraq.

Dont blame Islam for the war Somalis put themselves in.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

To be honest, I trust the scholars of his time who all wanted him arrested and imprisoned and said what he was spreading was innovation. Ibn Taymiyyah was the most influential person on MIAW.

Asking the prophet (saw) for intercede to Allah for us at his grave(tawwasul) is a great deed in Islam according to all scholars, and ibn taymiyyah was the first scholar to forbid it, and MIAW used this as justification to kill muslims and declare takfir on them.

I completely understand but it was for different reasons, many asharis didn’t like him simply because he refuted them so this played a role of in some of critique you’ll find about him. Ibn taymiyyah was influential to him as he believed he shared his views, when in reality what he became impressed by was his own rendition of what Ibn taymiyyah was saying. He was reading in his own bias to what ibn taymiyyah is saying & thought he shared the same views.

Miaw simply found the right guy in Ibntaymiyyah to launch off his own dawah.

 

[TekNiKo]

I would say that the Salafis don’t know that much about him. Wait until they hear that he was a Sufi and took the cloak of the Qadiri Sufi order

Ibn Taymiyyah also said Mawliid is permissible, he was lax on many things but Wahabbis ignore that

 

[Taij4an]

Ibn Taymiyyah also said Mawliid is permissible, he was lax on many things but Wahabbis ignore that

Ibn tammiyyah isnt the only sheikh salafis take from.
Dont project blind following shuyookh onto salafis

 

[World]

Ibn tammiyyah isnt the only sheikh salafis take from.
Dont project blind following shuyookh onto salafis

Other than ibn taymiyyah, there is no scholar before him that said tawwasul is haram, let alone major shirk as claimed by MIAW. So who taught you the deen? Did you receive revelation from Allah?

 

[Angelina]

Intercession is halal. They don’t worship the saints as only Allah is to be worshipped

Intercession from a dead person who cannot even see or hear you, is clearly shirk though. How can someone dead, who is being questioned in the grave help you in any shape or form?

@AdoonkaAlle is that acceptable from your perspective?

 

[Indeed]

Intercession from a dead person who cannot even see or hear you, is clearly shirk though. How can someone dead, who is being questioned in the grave help you in any shape or form?

@AdoonkaAlle is that acceptable from your perspective?

Exactly @Angelina, for once in my exquisite life, I agree with you on that statement, it’s shirk if you worship graves

 

[Angelina]

Exactly @Angelina, for once in my exquisite life, I agree with you on that statement, it’s shirk if you worship graves

If you actually used your braincells more often and left your sexism, you'll realise I usually make sense.

 

[Indeed]

If you actually used your braincells more often and left your sexism, you'll realise I usually make sense.

Oh now you’re accusing me of “sexism” lmaooooooooooooooooooo, first it was misogynistic, now sexism, what’s next? I’m a terrorist?

 

[World]

Intercession from a dead person who cannot even see or hear you, is clearly shirk though. How can someone dead, who is being questioned in the grave help you in any shape or form?

@AdoonkaAlle is that acceptable from your perspective?

They can hear you though.

It’s not major shirk, as long as they don’t believe that the dead person is able to help you independent of Allah.

 

[Angelina]

Oh now you’re accusing me of “sexism” lmaooooooooooooooooooo, first it was misogynistic, now sexism, what’s next? I’m a terrorist?

Lol, a lot of our debates have been due to your sexism. Misogyny is similar to sexism, but a more extreme form usually due to hatred, but in your case I think it was an exaggeration. It is simply good or old fashioned sexism.

 

[Indeed]

They can hear you though.

It’s not major shirk, as long as they don’t believe that the dead person is able to help you independent of Allah.

No, the only time we know when those who are put into the graves hear us, is when we finish burying the body, and we leave, that’s when they hear the footsteps of the people leaving. Worshipping graves is an act of shirk full stop.

 

[Angelina]

They can hear you though.

It’s not major shirk, as long as they don’t believe that the dead person is able to help you independent of Allah.

A dead person cannot help you whatsoever, they are dealing with their own tests such as being questioned in the grave. That is clearcut shirk.

If they don't believe that, then why do they go to graves asking so and so sheikh to make dua? A sheikh that is not in the Dunya?!

 

[Badboy4life]

They can hear you though.

It’s not major shirk, as long as they don’t believe that the dead person is able to help you independent of Allah.

Can they hear you all the time or only if you're close to their grave

 

[Angelina]

No, the only time we know when those who are put into the graves hear us, is when we finish burying the body, and we leave, that’s when they hear the footsteps of the people leaving. Worshipping graves is an act of shirk full stop.

I'm actually done with these lot. I've been getting thumbs down as they want to justify actual shirk and hate on scholars like ibn Taymiyyah. God help us.

Can they hear you all the time or only if you're close to their grave

@World

The principle is that the dead do not hear the words of the living, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): "but you cannot make hear those in the graves." [Faatir 35:22] and
"Verily, you cannot make the dead to hear" [al-Naml 27:80]

 

[Indeed]

Lol, a lot of our debates have been due to your sexism. Misogyny is similar to sexism, but a more extreme form usually due to hatred, but in your case I think it was an exaggeration. It is simply good or old fashioned sexism.

Saying I want a nice traditional house wife is “sexism” according to you? Oh my days, what has the extreme feminist groups done to you? You are on the verge of being radicalised by them at this rate.

 

[Indeed]

Can they hear you all the time or only if you're close to their grave

Only after burying them in janazah. The buried person will hear your footsteps, then two angels come to him, to question him, that’s the start of judgment.

 

[Angelina]

Saying I want a nice traditional house wife is “sexism” according to you? Oh my days, what has the extreme feminist groups done to you? You are on the verge of being radicalised by them at this rate.

Oh no. I have no issues with that. In fact I despise those men that want their wife to work AND do all the housechores.

If you're gonna provide and she does the cooking and cleaning then good for you. But remember, helping your spouse is good adhab and sunnah.just be compassionate, your wife in the West doesn't have sisters and cousins living next door along with help, like you'll find in traditional societies.