Sudan Conflict Updates: Army vs RSF

[Nilotic]

JEM literally said that Sudan cannot be reformed peacefully so that theory doesn't stand.

But the Zaghawa dominated JEM were not the only non-Arab Darfurians that rose up; other groups (like the Fur & Masalit) voiced grievances as well.

It's well known that JEM were Islamists and that Al-Turabi had very intimate relations with them. Khalil Ibrahim was one of the most ardent jihadists against the South during the North-South war.

There wasn't a single cause for the conflict, land and water disputes were an issue for decades but not why JEM declared war. Makes sense since the Zaghawa hold the most useless land in Sudan - very dry with not a single permanent river. Their goal was to overthrow the government and dominate Khartoum just like they dominate Chad under the guise of equality. Ironically enough they're just as violent to the Fur as the Arabs. One could say they're basically a weak dumb version of Arabs.

Perhaps you could make a case for the Zaghawa and their motivations for launching their rebellions, however, the other (larger) ethnic groups were clearly motivated by issues of land; and since this was an endemic problem that had been simmering for at least two decades at that point...

..Khartoum could have placated most groups if it had resolved the issue of land and its use with some degree of impartiality; any group that wanted greater concessions or powers outside that amniote, could have been isolated and framed as opportunists or unreasonable warmongers.

The creation of the Janjaweed was a terrible mistake.

 

[Asaana]

But the Zaghawa dominated JEM were not the only non-Arab Darfurians that rose up; other groups (like the Fur & Masalit) voiced grievances as well.

That's why I said there wasn't a single cause for the conflict. Anyways the Zaghawa were JEM but also dominated SLM.

It's well known that JEM were Islamists and that Al-Turabi had very intimate relations with them. Khalil Ibrahim was one of the most ardent jihadists against the South during the North-South war.

Al-Turabi is the Sudanese illuminati, he had intimate relations with everyone even Salva Kiir. They still hated Northerners and called Sudan an apartheid state.

Perhaps you could make a case for the Zaghawa and their motivations for launching their rebellions, however, the other (larger) ethnic groups were clearly motivated by issues of land; and since this was an endemic problem that had been simmering for at least two decades at that point...

..Khartoum could have placated most groups if it had resolved the issue of land and its use with some degree of impartiality; any group that wanted greater concessions or powers outside that amniote, could have been isolated and framed as opportunists or unreasonable warmongers.

The creation of the Janjaweed was a terrible mistake.

Khartoum was occupied with the civil war for those two decades... And it's not like the land could easily just be divided like a slice of cake that everyone would fairly share. Things could've been done better but by 2003 (after the civil war finally ended) it was too late for a peaceful resolution.

 

[Nilotic]

That's why I said there wasn't a single cause for the conflict. Anyways the Zaghawa were JEM but also dominated SLM.

In situations like that, there is usually a number of issues, even if the original issue is now just one of many.

Al-Turabi is the Sudanese illuminati, he had intimate relations with everyone even Salva Kiir.

Any potential relationship between Salva Kiir and the mastermind behind the Kezan and Bashir's rise, was certainly formed after 2005.

They still hated Northerners and called Sudan an apartheid state.

Sudan was and is an Arab supremacist State, and was far more brutal than Apartheid South Africa; Sudan just didn't institute a program of separation between Arabs and non-Arabs.

Khartoum was occupied with the civil war for those two decades... And it's not like the land could easily just be divided like a slice of cake that everyone would fairly share. Things could've been done better but by 2003 (after the civil war finally ended) it was too late for a peaceful resolution.

Unlike the South (where Khartoum's outright annexations were the primary triggers) land use seems to have been the biggest issue for Darfur; and Khartoum had been undeniably partial on that issue for decades...

..And there was probably a lack of trust by that point; it doesn't help that Khartoum invariably reneges on the terms of 'peace agreements', in whole or in part.

In any case, the issue of land is no small matter; the response of Nilo-Saharans throughout Sudan's history was the correct one, especially when the extent of annexations has successfully appropriated as much as 12, 500 km2 of land in one case alone.

No amount of land aquisitions (as individuals) could ever be renumerative in relation to what was lost for the collective in those cases.

This is my last contribution on this thread.

 

[Asaana]

Sudan was and is an Arab supremacist State, and was far more brutal than Apartheid South Africa; Sudan just didn't institute a program of separation between Arabs and non-Arabs.

It was far more brutal since Bantus are more docile than Nilo-Saharans. Trust me if Black South Africans pulled a Torit mutiny or "heroes day" the Dutch would've shown what they're capable of.

Unlike the South (where Khartoum's outright annexations were the primary triggers) land use seems to have been the biggest issue for Darfur; and Khartoum had been undeniably partial on that issue for decades...

..And there was probably a lack of trust by that point; it doesn't help that Khartoum invariably reneges on the terms of 'peace agreements', in whole or in part.

In any case, the issue of land is no small matter; the response of Nilo-Saharans throughout Sudan's history was the correct one, especially when the extent of annexations has successfully appropriated as much as 12, 500 km2 of land in one case alone.

No amount of land aquisitions (as individuals) could ever be renumerative in relation to what was lost for the collective in those cases.

This is my last contribution on this thread.

Land/water is the biggest issue in Darfur but definitely not the main trigger of the war considering the disproportionately significant role that the Zaghawa played.

The trust was low on both sides for valid reasons. That being said it's not comparable to the past peace agreement you're alluding to since Khartoum would be serving as a spectator rather than a direct participant.

 

[Asaana]

@Khalumi come back habibi we need to get your emoji reaction to this

 

[Waaqmasho]

@Khalumi come back habibi we need to get your emoji reaction to this

Asaana i have read your posts from the start of the conflict. I want to ask you a question. You once mentioned something along the lines of "even the bagarra are not arabs". Can you elaborate on that point?

 

[Asaana]

Asaana i have read your posts from the start of the conflict. I want to ask you a question. You once mentioned something along the lines of "even the bagarra are not arabs". Can you elaborate on that point?

I don't recall saying that?

 

[Waaqmasho]

I don't recall saying that?

You said gypsies and later settlers. i want to understand what's the difference between northern arab tribes and baggara? Do they have different percentages of arab or are they more admixed?

 

[Asaana]

You said gypsies and later settlers. i want to understand what's the difference between northern arab tribes and baggara? Do they have different percentages of arab or are they more admixed?

I was mostly trolling, they're often called gypsies and settlers since they stretch from Kordofan all the way to Mali. Admixture varies greatly by clan, some Baggara are basically Arabic speaking indigenous Africans while some are more than 50% Bedouin, same goes for Arab clans in the North/Nile valley.

 

[Asaana]

Civilian killed several RSF fighters after they trespassed into his home.

 

[Asaana]

After suffering great losses in Omdurman RSF has been eliminated from several Khartoum neighborhoods.

 

[Nilotic]

Some snippets from the history of the Nuba; their interactions with Riverine and Baggara Arabs; and why they continue to fight for their lands.

Violence against the Nuba further escalated during the Mahdiya era, with far-reaching ramifications—territorially, socioeconomically and politically. At the outset, the Mahdiyya movement launched a direct and forcible mobilization of the Nuba into the Jihadiyya (the Mahdist armies) to support its troops in Omdurman (Sagar 1922, 140). In the process, it gathered a large number of recruits, mostly by force, often associated with mass atrocities. Even children did not escape the massacres “where they were seized by the feet and their brains dashed to pieces on the rock” (Wingate 1892: 98–9, quoted in Salih 1982, 37). The lucky ones were taken as captives, and there was a slave market in al-Obeid where women and children, mostly Nuba, were sold.

Moreover, land grabbing was at its peak through the Mechanized Rain-Fed Farming Schemes in the region (see Bathanni 1986; Saeed 1980). As a result, the Nuba traditional farmers became strangers in their own land, with many forced to migrate to urban areas in search of new means of livelihood in central and northern Sudan.

By the early 1990s, some 60 000–70 000 Nuba had been killed in government military operations—brutal campaigns virtually invisible to the outside world (Meyer 2005, 26).

Source:

Civilians’ Survival Strategies amid Institutionalized Insecurity and Violence in the Nuba Mountains, Sudan

Civilians’ Survival Strategies amid Institutionalized Insecurity and Violence in the Nuba Mountains, Sudan

www.cmi.no

 

[Jun]

@Khalumi come back habibi we need to get your emoji reaction to this

دنيا زايلي وزايل نعيمكي

 

[Cartan Boos]

Where's that guy with the lion pfp

 

[Asaana]

Where's that guy with the lion pfp

He was online 2 days ago but had nothing to say

 

[Nilotic]

Hemedti has been very low-key; he only ocassionally releases audio recordings and statements, which me think he must be convalescing after having sustained an injury.

 

[Asaana]

Hemedti has been very low-key; he only ocassionally releases audio recordings and statements, which me think he must be convalescing after having sustained an injury.

 

[Nilotic]

I really do hope that this is true; we'll need concrete evidence of this and then his victims in Darfur and Kordofan can finally have some good news.

 

[Nilotic]

https://www.trtworld.com/africa/darfur-tribes-pledge-allegiance-to-rsf-in-conflict-torn-sudan-13920034

 

[Nilotic]

UN warns of ‘full-scale civil war’ in Sudan, Egypt to host summit

Conflict-torn Sudan is on the brink of a war that could destabilise the entire region, the United Nations warns.

www.aljazeera.com