Couldnt agree more. Somalis need to fall back. Help behind scenes donate money, do duah for justice. But dont hop on social media and make everything about yourself and somalis. Feel this about palestine issues, grooming issue, and world isues in general. Somalis have way to much heat on us. We need to become lowkey like sudanese ethiopians and Djiboutians. They mostly muslim black and immigrants yet dont get bashed 24/7.
The Pakistani grooming scandal is not our business or issue
- Thread starter Awbarre
- Start date
You are really thick and it's a slander to insinuate I support those groomers.
If it was just a paki bashing affair I wouldn't have cared, no one else would, but the far right is not pushing the paki degenerate culture link angle that you are, for them, they did these heinous crimes because of Islam and their Prophet.
They essentially link it back to Somalis and the rest of the 2 billion muslims by definition
You are as much as a groomer as those degenerates to them, that's why you see a collective backlash from Muslims of all races.
Elon musk is bashing and blaming Muslims for this not Pakistani's, then you come along and advocate for quietism like the madkhalis.
I am fighting not to be tainted by what those groomers did and defend the religion, but you are happy for these degenerates to be linked to you and your religion.
If I didn't know this was a somali forum, I would have thought it was a white supremacist site, if you want to be quiet and sit on the line that's fine, but keep your mouth shut on those that refuse to do so.
You are clearly lying. Every mainstream news report has been very clear as identifying the problem primarily as a Pakistani Muslim problem. Go and see what is trending. Even the non Muslim Pajeets are embarrassed.
But I know your type well. The problem with your ilk is that the entirety of your world view is defined by a fake political utopian non-existent Ummah. In your worldview there can be no other explanation for any world or local event outside of a very narrow and pathetic belief that you share more in common with a Paki groomer just because he is Muslim to the point that you will defend their actions because the victims are non Muslim.
I can see right through you
I admire your optimism I really do and I am not being sarcastic at all and I have read your posts.
But the differences between us outside of the gap of experience is that I am realist whereas you are an blind optimist.
Unlike yourself I have spent significant time in Somalia and the bulk of my wealth is invested there, unlike you I also married there, I have much more skin in the game then you in somalia.
I was looking forward to you engaging my post in your own topic when I crunched the numbers, but you refused, because you know the numbers don't lie and your position that Somalia is a utopia is indefensible.
Remittance according to an old UN report is closer to 2 billion (1.6b exact) and that's only North America and Europe alone and they quote dahabshiil a decade ago, that's easily 2 billion today.
Somali diaspora’s remittances cast a lifeline
During two decades of conflict, famines and floods, Somali expatriates’ transmission of money back home — known as “remittances” — has been instrumental in keeping Somalia afloat. The UN Development Programme estimates that $1.6 billion in remittances are sent back annually by Somali emigrants...
It excludes remittances from Africa, Asia and the middle East, and we can estimate those figures to be at least comparable if not higher.
At the lowest end it's 3 billion remittance if we include Asia, Africa and Middle East, that's 30-40% real GDP Somalia and if you exclude foreign aid it's even higher, it's a critical lifeline and without that it's game over.
Your presumption that more money circulates then remittances that are sent is false and not backed by any data, we have no significant industries or factories, I discussed why in your own topic due to sky high energy costs, the money has no chance to circulate.
We have trade deficits with every country, the only significant export we have is livestock at ridiculous cheap discounts.
Yes the diaspora moving back in very small numbers has had a positive impact, but a mass migration event will be the death of Somalia.
No amount of ingenuity will save you, we have no infrastructure, the highest energy cost in the world, we import 90% of our food, at the bottom in corruption index, most unstable country in the world, and the worst of all, the military and police composed of the worst of society, they will be the first to kill you when a little hardship happens.
These issues take decades to fix, and we don't have that time, if we loose this decade, it's game over, we won't exist as a nation state 2050, why? Demographics!!!
The boomer generation, the biggest remittance contributers in the diaspora are already dying, their children (millennials) majority won't foot those bills, the same for the older Gen X hitting retirement their Gen Z offspring are even worse then the millennials, they won't send anything back.
That's 30-40% GDP disappearing in two decades, much of our youth look down on labour work while the others are planning tahriib, so even demographics Somalia doesn't look good.
The only wildcard that can save us is hydrocarbons, regardless of corruption, it will significantly reduce energy cost for everyone, which means manufacturing and setting up factories within the country becomes profitable and the investors will flood in, which will lead to industrialization.
Outside of this, we are toast as a nation, our neighbours Ethiopia energy cost kWh is $0.01 we pay over $1 per kWh they have over 4000 registered factories we have only 9 in the entire country. (All solar powered)
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You are more of a cynic than a realist. A realist looks at things from pragmatic macro-picture with an emphasis to real details and prospective gains. They don't espouse irrational racial garbage or vomit nonsense caricatures.
You went to Somalia and came back knowing less about it and harboring resentment for his own people. Good job, that was a trip and investment well spent aay.
I was looking forward to you engaging my post in your own topic when I crunched the numbers, but you refused, because you know the numbers don't lie and your position that Somalia is a utopia is indefensible.
Remittance according to an old UN report is closer to 2 billion (1.6b exact) and that's only North America and Europe alone and they quote dahabshiil a decade ago, that's easily 2 billion today.
Somali diaspora’s remittances cast a lifeline
During two decades of conflict, famines and floods, Somali expatriates’ transmission of money back home — known as “remittances” — has been instrumental in keeping Somalia afloat. The UN Development Programme estimates that $1.6 billion in remittances are sent back annually by Somali emigrants...www.un.org
It excludes remittances from Africa, Asia and the middle East, and we can estimate those figures to be at least comparable if not higher.
At the lowest end it's 3 billion remittance if we include Asia, Africa and Middle East, that's 30-40% real GDP Somalia and if you exclude foreign aid it's even higher, it's a critical lifeline and without that it's game over.
Your presumption that more money circulates then remittances that are sent is false and not backed by any data, we have no significant industries or factories, I discussed why in your own topic due to sky high energy costs, the money has no chance to circulate.
We have trade deficits with every country, the only significant export we have is livestock at ridiculous cheap discounts.
Yes the diaspora moving back in very small numbers has had a positive impact, but a mass migration event will be the death of Somalia.
No amount of ingenuity will save you, we have no infrastructure, the highest energy cost in the world, we import 90% of our food, at the bottom in corruption index, most unstable country in the world, and the worst of all, the military and police composed of the worst of society, they will be the first to kill you when a little hardship happens.
These issues take decades to fix, and we don't have that time, if we loose this decade, it's game over, we won't exist as a nation state 2050, why? Demographics!!!
The boomer generation, the biggest remittance contributers in the diaspora are already dying, their children (millennials) majority won't foot those bills, the same for the older Gen X hitting retirement their Gen Z offspring are even worse then the millennials, they won't send anything back.
Unless Somalia is a utopia it's the worst place on earth and its people are doomed? This is the person describing himself as a realist, yaab.
What i said was it's mostly self reliant, Here is another UN report from 2020 and not a decade ago.
https://downloads.unido.org/ot/21/18/21185699/1_UNIDO_MoCI%20Report%20Financial%20Sector_final.pdf
The same report puts the remitances at 1.3 Billion. So it hasn't increased much but the growth of wealth within the country has increased the past decade. You know why? Because Somalia is stabilizing and the diaspora investments went into businesses and services that generate money. Do you honestly believe 2.7 billion Somalis spend every month inside the country on purchases come from remittances that only add up to 1.3 billion a year?
36 billion USD make up the money transactions in a year and that makes up 36% of GDP, then 1.3 billion would make only 1.3% of the GDP.
Somalis actually own business in more than one country, so the people who invest in Somali enclaves in Kenya, South Africa and Dubai also invest in Businesses in Somalia/Somaliland and Ogaden
Remittances form a source of revenue in almost every country, but it's not Somalia' sole source of revenue or make up , it has diverse economic activity, trade and production inside the country that it uses to generates wealth.
Also not to mention a big majority of the diaspora remitance actually come from UAE and Africa.
Many don't actually look down on labour work , its companies that used to outsource it for capitalist reasons which ends up discriminating against locals but most of the labourers in Somalia are locals. Luckily they have rolled out laws against this and they have been rolling out vocational and technical schools.
Tahribing has mostly gone down as they have rolled out work job placement programs for youth graduates in Somaliland and they have educated people about the risks and dangers, it used to be more prevelant back in 2016-2018 though, there is a reason you don't hear about it much anymore.
Somalia pays $0.5 – 1 per kWh, it can be a high or extremely low depending where you live in the country and the source energy supply.
People in Somalia have already started to implement renewable energy measures and this is without direct heavy investment from the government that major projects require
You can expect this to grow and expand once the government roles out it's investment plan to boost the energy sector targeted to reach 2030.
Energy - Somalia Investment Promotion Office
Energy Sector Relies on fuel wood and charcoal, and imported petroleum to meet its energy needs. Overview Zones Oppurtunities Major Investors Documents Gallery Energy Sector Somalia’s economy is growing and needs affordable energy to continue developing. The National energy deficit in the...sominvest.gov.so
View attachment 351385
View attachment 351384
There are already energy companies throughout the country that is investing in renewable energy and installing wind turbines and solar panels, solar stations.
View attachment 351388
Energy in Somalia is becoming cheaper with a hybrid use of solar, wind, hydro, bio-energy and geothermal energy added to the mix. The high price in areas comes from expensive diesal generators. Expanding and modernizing the national grid (where applicable) or investing in off-grid solutions will make energy more accessible and affordable. Power generation from renewable sources reduce dependence on expensive imported fuel. Even less so with Somalia's oil and gas resources backup or off-grid solutions for electricity.
Somalia has like 50 factories that produce what people need in the country, with many more under way as investments have increased lately and Ethiopia either has a few state owned factories with low productivity or a dozen where they are outsourcing hubs by foreign companies for cheap manufacturing or labor were they either don't got payed or get payed dirt poor and half whom are mostly to make/produce garments.
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Is it for being Somali or for the color of the skin
Both
Remittance is the economic backbone. Your own source sites something along the lines of 25 to a whopping 45% which is nearly half.
As for factory and industry, they are now trying to make strides. Whilst I was there I saw many products made in Somalia from Ice-cream to tissue and the list continues but it’s still in its infancy.
The truth is in the middle, I find you too optimistic and it simply doesn’t align with what many of us see when we go back home. Even your point about Somalis not looking down on physical labour defies reality. Unfortunately, a huge bulk of those that do such labors are from minority clans and it is a historical fact that Somalis did look down on carpenters ect which is why groups like Madhibaan were othered and till this day if you go to building sites in places like Xamar you will mostly see Madowweyne. Locals will also tell you this. I know Hargeisa is different and that you’re seeing a lot more people of major tribes trying to normalize labor but we still have a long way to go.
Do you think Somalis looking down at labour as beneath them as a regional thing. Because my family in Galbeed and Northern Somalia have been doing physically laborious jobs for centuries. Even now they are still doing it back home. From carpentry, cloth-making, house building, and agriculture to name a few they have done it. Even the ones from the major tribes do it too.
You and @Inquisitive_ need to put on your glasses and read what the source says ''remittances account for between 25% and 45% til 2015'' and the importance of remittances declined since 2012.
It goes on to say ''However experts acknowledged that the role of MTO in the economy has been declining since 2012 due to the return of many Somali Diasporas , and increase in the production of the domestic economy as result of new investments from both foreign investors and Somalis.''
The banking sector it mentions is important because they are the increasingly large investor pool that finance business and housing developments in Somalia among other things. So it's Somalis back home that self-finance and self generating much of the economic activity back in Somalia.
The whole remittances are life-line mantra is a decade old news.
It's regular Somalis of all stripes doing majority of the labour work in Somalia and the construction, not only minority clans and madowweyne (whatever that is) and when i was talking about outsourcing is that they would bring indians/chinese and i wasn't referring to Mogadishu, as the reports i have read from Puntland might apply to it as well.
No in Somalia a good sizeable portion of the construction builders are still Somalis. Not all foreigners. Foreigners are more recently being recruited to meet a demand.
There is outsourcing happening to Chinese and Indians from overseas not Kenyans, that may puts pressure on the job availability/security of locals: According to this article
Somali builders feel ousted by foreign workers in Puntland
(ERGO) – Abdiaziz Issa Daud, a builder in Garowe, blames the loss of his job and his subsequent abandonment by his wife on the influx of foreign workers from India and China into the Somali state of Puntland.www.hiiraan.com
Outsourcing of labour is pretty much something happening world wide. It has to do with the incentive of companies to make a profit
We need to see the % now and how much has actually decreased and btw in Xamar it is indeed mostly minority clans like madowweyne being the bulk of those doing labor like construction and that’s what I seen with my own eyes when building and what the locals have told me.
2012 was the year Somali Federal Government formed and 2015 was the year that marked a return in diaspora and foreign investment.
We can do the math. We are currently in 2024 and the wealth circulation in 2020 was around 32 billion a year, 2.7 billion a month in transactions through mobile payments which is 36% of the GDP and remittances still only make up 1.3 billion a year which is 1.3% of the GDP. Remittances only account for 6% of mobile money transfers a year as well based on the report
Xamar is different than Somaliland and Puntland in so far as it has more diversity of clans and groups living there. Also whether it is in Somaliland or Puntland or Mogadishu unskilled labour work is usually done increasingly by people who are from poor backgrounds, have less education or have less financial backing, so it might even have more to do with that. So it's probably reflective of them being less well off than other Somalis, which is a shame.
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How are Indian Muslims/south Asians who get bombarded with racist poop memes face less racism than Somalis
You provided me a financial sector report, hormuud and dahabshiil is basically remittances sister, they are the financial backbone, that's their business model, they wouldn't be in business without remittance industry, hormuud has since diversified pretty well, but despite all their diversification, their biggest profits still come from remittances.
I provided you UN one quoting dahabshiil that put the figure 1.6 billion and that's only Europe and North America remittances.
It excludes remittances from Africa, Middle East and Asia who according to your own words send much more then the west, again that's actually over 3 billion closer to 4 using your maths which also assumed no growth in remittance for a decade which is absurd.
The GDP Somalia for 2024 is 11 billion, that's anywhere between 30-40% GDP, I believe that figure is much higher 50% if we strip off all the foreign aid.
That money your talking about circulating in the economy is majority remittances, most of it leaves the country as we import everything.
I dealt with the solar argument in your own topic and even the ardent supporters of solar who I used to be one of, saw the reality once we crunched the numbers together.
The same happend to the dude who came with wind turbines, it's not scalable or feasible if we want to industrialize, outside of some few sea side factories, more land is required for the turbines then whatever your powering at 10-15x the rate, and these things only have a 20 year life.
The biggest challenge in Somalia is it's people, that's the real problem, everything else you can solve, but changing people filled with xasad so much so they have killed countless engineers and continue to do so, it's hopeless.
Somalia according to world stats ranks bottom every metric, corruption index we have lead for 30 years now, infrastructure we rank at the bottom, peace/stability similar, fragility of the state, the same, cost of energy? The highest in the world.
I was paying higher energy bills on my house in Somalia then I do here in the UK, $150-250 a month just for electricity alone and mainly due to running air-conditioning, several hours each day.
Your comment about Ethiopia shows your deep ignorance, but it's typical for Somalis of your ilk, over exaggerate your own, trash those you resent, rather then being objective.
Is the country improving? Yes, is it improving at a substantial rate? NO, it it at least keeping pace with neighbouring countries ? NO
Your a typical delusional diaspora kid with no experience, I encourage you to travel more, spend time there, get to know the people, and you will come back with new found appreciation of your lord that he choose you not to be raised in that hell hole.
The future of that country and it's existence is dependent on the hydrocarbons being extracted, because we clearly don't have the people to turn it around , that's the only way we will survive in the coming decades and exist as a nation once remittances dry up.
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It's the same in Garowe and Hargeisa, the minorities are the builders, they do much of the labour.
The Somalis in Garowe and Somaliland look down on labour far more then those in Mogadishu who are more humble in comparison.
The sister hasn't travelled much or been to Somalia beyond holidays, I doubt she has any skin in the game, I am surprised to see a diaspora Xaalimo so optimistic about Somalia, I give her credit for that.
I just wished the people in the country shared the same sentiments as her, it would transform us overnight.
Been all over Somalia , Kenya, Ethiopia etc. I have seen videos and photos of various construction sites , detailed studies and reports as well. You forget i am the user on this site who has a keen interest in housing and urban planning in Somali communities.
They are not mostly madow weyne which i assume is some weird racist code word Somali bantus.
Somali construction workers in Mogadishu
Strengthening vocational education and training in Somalia
The project focuses on improving the public vocational education and training system in terms of its governance, quality and access.
Somali construction workers in Garowe/Puntland
You can literally see this for yourself, and visit various construction company websites where they show videos and galleries of their laborers and team in action.
Gallery - Albashid Constructions
albashid.com
Buruuj Construction and Real Estate – Buruuj Construction and Real Estate
Buruuj Construction and Real Estate
It's just local Somalis of all stripes doing the work for the most part and the ones who actually opt for unskilled labour low wage work the most is actually Somalis of poorer less well off backgrounds that are desperate for employment opportunities to support themselves with, while the construction managers, technician builders and civil engineers managing those sites come from more educated skilled backgrounds and in many cases graduates of universities or vocational schools.
You even misrepresent your own source , its united nations study btw and its an aggregate number 1.6 billion that includes Somalis from the gulf region and other places not just Europe and America.. Dahabshil only manage 2/3rds of this btw.
But yeah the the same UN report in 2020 puts remittances at 1.4 billion
Remittances only account for 6% of mobile money transactions. So 94% is non-remittance based.
The mobile money transactions is around 2.7 billion a month.
Mobile money transactions put together becomes 32 billion a year. So yeah you do the math. 1.4 billion is drop in the bucket. 32 billion is only 36% of the GDP might i add.
Somalia has a plethora options when it comes to renewable energy and its opting for a hybrid model.
So it's not just solar and wind alone which would bringing down the cost significantly and is stated to be used to power businesses, heck geothermal energy alone can supply all of Somalia's energy needs plus industrial capacity and then leave a lot for export.
I have covered this in a different thread that Somalis true GDP is significantly higher than the stated estimate , you can pretty much see it from the amount of mobile money transfer alone which far exceeds that number , and they haven't really done a rebase yet .
Somalia's GDP is many times higher than what it is currently is shown to be , the current 34 Billion GDP PP. Because they are using year 1991 as a base year but this is when the economy plummeted to less than 1 billion after a collapse of the govt.
Which is insane because there are many new industries and markets that didn’t exist in the past before 1991
But If you look at simply mobile money transfer in Somalia it's 32 billion which is equivalent to economies with 100 billion GDP like Kenya. Mind you Somalia has a way lower population.
This is not an aspect you can falsify and can idicate the size of the economy, so much money transfers is happening monthly but we are meant to believe that per capita it's less than 1000. A country with a GPD per capita of $500 could never have the same monthly mobile transactions ($2.7 billion in 2018) as Kenya or Ghana nor be the main trading partner of all of its neighbours.
When they do rebase as well that will factor in the new industries and markets it will suprise many. They have done a rebase in other African countries like Kenya or Ghana which showed an upgraded reality of their economy and GDP
How to boost GDP stats by 60%
In 2010, Ghana announced a 60% increase in GDP estimates and Nigeria may soon follow suit. How do such miraculous rises come about?www.bbc.com
Understanding Ghana’s rebased GDP - CNBC Africa
After a rebasing exercise that changed the base year from 2006 to 2013, Ghana's GDP expanded by 25 per cent to $52 billion dollars, making the West African country the 6th largest economy in sub-Saharan Africa.www.cnbcafrica.com
I disagree. Somalias strenght is it's people. The human capital gain and investments and selfless giving that is producing economic growth in the country and job oppurtunities in the country. It's why Somalia is becoming a fast growing commercial and real estate hub , growing health care sector and boasts regions Nr. 1 university.
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How did I misrepresent, here is a screenshot of the link I posted, these figures are just for North America and Europe. DOES NOT INCLUDE ASIA, MIDDLE EAST and AFRICA, who according to you remittances are higher.
As bad as those are, if that was the only problem, dishonesty and lack of integrity, we can work around it, but these people actually kill competitors and Engineers that embark on transformative projects in the country out of pure Xasid.
I can at least understand taking out a competitor as callous and degenerate as that is, but a person building sewer system? and other infrastructure that benefits the entire country?
I recall a small stretch of road construction that wasn't even built properly due to corruption, you had so many soldiers there guarding the workers and equipments at a significant cost, it was crazy to see and the soldiers were on constant high alert and paranoid.
Who are they guarding against you may ask? other corrupt soldiers, police officers, criminal gangs, khawaarij and the general public that will extort the workers and steal the equipments, and if they find the actual engineer kill him. (all the top engineers have heavy security escort all the time)
@Idilinaa I am not denying you have some none Bantu/Madowweyne in the labour work force, neither is Angelina, we are arguing they are the minority.
However those images you are sharing are just the PR pictures, there is not a sweat on those guys and the clothes are fresh, it doesn't proof anything, this is well known in Somalia, which is why I doubt you spent significant amount of time there beyond holidays.
''Welcome to the United Nations''
They are quoting an old United nations source as it says up top, you just have to go directly to the primary souces and its says they got the figures from the world bank
And the UNDP 2011 is the one that actually mentions the 1.6 billion figure
And yeah it's pretty mute argument you are making. Whether its 1.6 billion or another number like 3.4 you pull from behind it doesn't make difference to the 2.4 billion money transactions a month and 32 billion a year.
It's like that source from 2020 said , the role of remittances has been reduced sharply since 2012-2015 and only make up 6% of money transactions now that the country has created productive domestic economy.
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