"The US funding and arming of 2006 Ethiopia invasion of Somalia was another Netanyahu call," Prof. Jeffrey Sachs"

[Idilinaa]

What is your angle? That her analysis and criticism is motivated by qabyalad? Or is it your projecting your own mindset by reading that into it?

Check out her post history on the warlords. She speaks extensively of all of them including the warlords in Muqdisho and the warlords SNM.

Somalis need to see and interpret things outside the prism of clanhood. You will come to find very little is motivated by clan. There is lot of personal individual motives, social -economic , strategic , religious motives. Sometimes even ideological motives that is not related to kinship. It's also a lot of foreign inteferences and influencing at play.

Somalis don't unanimously support people or pledge loyalty because they are from the same clan as them in the political sense. There is a field study and them looking through archives that looked into Ogaden that found this out: @Aseer needs to read this.

Political Identity as Temporal Collapse: Ethiopian Federalism and Contested Ogaden Histories

Abstract. Since the 1980s, analyses of African political identities have emphasized identity manipulation as a governance tool. In the Somali Horn of Afric

academic.oup.com

Drawing on fieldwork and archival research, we show that political struggles over Somalis’ integration with Ethiopia orient around Somali clanship, but that clanship is not a mechanical tool of mobilization, as it is often portrayed. We suggest that genealogical relatedness does not equate to political loyalty, but genealogical discourse provides a framework by which various actors reinterpret contemporary events by collapsing history into the present to imbue clan, ethnic, and national identities with political significance.

It's funny even these ajanabi researchers have caught on begun to see passed this ''clan-talk'' as nonsense assertions and thats what they are assertions and false narratives that are employed that is attributing collective behaviour and political loyalties that are not actually real.

Questioning the automatic relationship between clanship and political mobilization, our article focuses on what we call ‘clan-talk’: assertions that imbue Somali clanship with political significance by attributing collective behaviour and political loyalties to clan identity.We show how political actors deploy narratives and stereotypes about clan politics to legitimize claims to ethnic leadership as well as inter-ethnic alliances.

The SNM did not represent Isaaq, SDDF did not represent Majerteen, USC did not represent Hawiye , SPM didn't represent merahan. It's all nonsense clan talk imbued into them.

And even ICU which was a coalition didn't only represent hawiye, it got support across different communities for various reasons unrelated to clan and primarily because they spoke to peoples collective interests.

The warlords and Abdullahi Yusuf didn't get genuine support they just forced people using foreign weapons & funds and brutalized them and kept them hostage. Their clan didn't actually support them or even elect them, it was foreigners that did.


I have also seen Haji Ingriis employ this ''clan-talk'' throughout his garbage book , accuse the 1960s Aden & Sharmarke regime of being ''majerteen monarchy'' that there was some sort of clan agenda by the Majerteen to take over but rather it was inviduals with wealth , educational, administrative/civic experience that came to dominate the democratic process as Professor Said Samatar explained and certain few among them had a lot merchant capital to fund election campaigns and connections/experience. But he didn't get that analysis and only saw their clan. He also didn't see that others including the ones i mentioned at times lacked that capital they took bribes and funds from outside or from the treasury that was meant to go to development. Even CIA interferred and funded them, which some speculate they might have been behind the assasination of Sharmarke as Egal was proven to be an asset.

There are others things like the Siad Barre accusation with clan favoratism or hate for certain clan, which lacks evidence. Infact the more i look into it the more he just appears to be someone who loved his people and country, especially all his speeches, tapes of his privates conversations and his writings just reflect that. They also turned him giving concessions and helping out various Somali communities as either boosting a clan or playing clans off eachother. Him helping and rewarding people is painted as some nefarious clan act.
The clan favoritism and hate makes no sense when you consider how they banned clan discrimination and so you also have people complain about that like that murtad Ayan Hirsi complain about it , this is how ''clan-talk'' works assertions imbued into narratives.

It's sad and tragic that Somalis from certain communities were victimized but it is not because of their clan its because of those foreign backed insurgents/warlords and rogue soldiers.

Somali regardless of clan are innocent victims in a conspiracy by foreigners and self serving traitors. They should see it for what it is.

 

[Idilinaa]

Your telling they were losing two hundred people a day what the hell

Sorry it was weekly not a day. It was quite humiliating for them and they were liking their wounds as a result of it.

Many of them either surrendered or fled to Yemen.

 

[Zak12]

The SNM did not represent Isaaq, SDDF did not represent Majerteen, USC did not represent Hawiye , SPM didn't represent merahan

IIRC, the people under those groups were complaining about how their fight against the government was causing more harm to their livelihood than good. You once posted a source about that I think.

 

[Idilinaa]

IIRC, the people under those groups were complaining about how their fight against the government was causing more harm to their livelihood than good. You once posted a source about that I think.

They did not represent the local groups and leadership at all and acted independent from them and they lived abroad (Ethiopia) as well.

Notice he says ''they were not traditional grassroots elders'' after they replaced the local traditional cheifs with randoms they found

So even the government system nor the insurgency was something that was locally derived.

You also start to see something interesting happen during early 2000s with rise of the ICU , that it was a change that was spreading throughout the whole of Somalia. Both Puntland and Somaliland goverments were facing preasure for reform by locals and similar Islamic courts were opening up.

This what an actual grassroot statebuilding movement actually looks like

 

[X29]

They did not represent the local groups and leadership at all and acted independent from them and they lived abroad (Ethiopia) as well.

Notice he says ''they were not traditional grassroots elders'' after they replaced the local traditional cheifs with randoms they found

So even the government system nor the insurgency was something that was locally derived.

You also start to see something interesting happen during early 2000s with rise of the ICU , that it was a change that was spreading throughout the whole of Somalia. Both Puntland and Somaliland goverments were facing preasure for reform by locals and similar Islamic courts were opening up.

This what an actual grassroot statebuilding movement actually looks like

How did the us look at endf failure and there massive deaths

 

[Idilinaa]

How did the us look at endf failure and there massive deaths

Initially they tried to quietly distance themselves from any responsibility by outright lying and then later they came out to say it was mistake obliquely admitting U.S. responsibility for the invasion.

 

[X29]

Initially they tried to quietly distance themselves from any responsibility by outright lying and then later they came out to say it was mistake obliquely admitting U.S. responsibility for the invasion.

What do you think is going to happen with abiy government do you see them lasting

 

[Idilinaa]

What do you think is going to happen with abiy government do you see them lasting

He is either going to be toppled or the most like scenario Ethiopia will disintegrate like Yugoslavia. He is making enemies out everyone and pushing expansionist agendas.

 

[X29]

He is either going to be toppled or the most like scenario Ethiopia will disintegrate like Yugoslavia. He is making enemies out everyone and pushing expansionist agendas.

I heard fiqi was apart of ICU

 

[Idilinaa]

I heard fiqi was apart of ICU

Yeah thats what it says online, unsure what his role was within the ICU but notice he is the most anti-ethiopian inteference among Federal government and comes out often with sharp criticisms against them.

He came out to say even that Somalia defeated ethiopia during the invasion and they came back to re-invent them same destabilizing behaviour just as it was making developmental progress. It angered FGS loyalists

 

[Chase]

What is your angle? That her analysis and criticism is motivated by qabyalad? Or is it your projecting your own mindset by reading that into it?

Check out her post history on the warlords. She speaks extensively of all of them including the warlords in Muqdisho and the warlords SNM.

Who and what clan were these warlords? Why were they stooges for the CIA/MOSSAD? What were these warlords and their militias doing to civilians post 91?

You're making yourselves out to seem as some innocent victims, as if the ICU didn't bomb a meeting that AY attended in Baidoa killing his brother, as well as invading Kismayo, killing Darood civilians might I add.

 

[Zak12]

What were these warlords and their militias doing to civilians post 91?

Do you seriously need to ask this?

 

[X29]

Yeah thats what it says online, unsure what his role was within the ICU but notice he is the most anti-ethiopian inteference among Federal government and comes out often with sharp criticisms against them.

He came out to say even that Somalia defeated ethiopia during the invasion and they came back to re-invent them same destabilizing behaviour just as it was making developmental progress. It angered FGS loyalists

What was Meles sensei real goals are heard Ethiopia was needing money so they went through with it

 

[Idilinaa]

What was Meles sensei real goals are heard Ethiopia was needing money so they went through with it

Meles sensei? What do you mean by that?

I answered this in the first page.

 

[Idilinaa]

@X29 But you are partially right, there is was a dual incentive , one is financial

The financial incentives was the fact that Worldbank, IMF and the western world at large was heading to sanction Meles and his government lost millions in dire need of money.

European Parliament Calls for Sanctions on Ethiopia

The European Parliament is calling on the European Union’s executive to impose tough sanctions on the Ethiopian government.

amharic.voanews.com

So the invasion 2006 also presented as the golden goose to gain that financing

Ethiopia reaps U.S. aid by enlisting in war on terror and hiring influential lobbyists - ICIJ

One dramatic act sets Ethiopia apart from the array of countries with poor human rights records that have become United States counterterrorism allies since the September 11, 2001, attacks: With U.S. backing, it invaded a neighboring country and overthrew a Taliban-like Islamist movement.

www.icij.org

This dual incentive is still active today, they get payed millions for doing nothing being camped up in basis as part of the AMISOM mission , while at the same time have their foot in Somalia.

 

[Marsh]

Somalis need to see and interpret things outside the prism of clanhood. You will come to find very little is motivated by clan. There is lot of personal individual motives, social -economic , strategic , religious motives. Sometimes even ideological motives that is not related to kinship. It's also a lot of foreign inteferences and influencing at play.

Somalis don't unanimously support people or pledge loyalty because they are from the same clan as them in the political sense. There is a field study and them looking through archives that looked into Ogaden that found this out: @Aseer needs to read this.

Political Identity as Temporal Collapse: Ethiopian Federalism and Contested Ogaden Histories

Abstract. Since the 1980s, analyses of African political identities have emphasized identity manipulation as a governance tool. In the Somali Horn of Afric

academic.oup.com

It's funny even these ajanabi researchers have caught on begun to see passed this ''clan-talk'' as nonsense assertions and thats what they are assertions and false narratives that are employed that is attributing collective behaviour and political loyalties that are not actually real.


The SNM did not represent Isaaq, SDDF did not represent Majerteen, USC did not represent Hawiye , SPM didn't represent merahan. It's all nonsense clan talk imbued into them.

And even ICU which was a coalition didn't only represent hawiye, it got support across different communities for various reasons unrelated to clan and primarily because they spoke to peoples collective interests.

The warlords and Abdullahi Yusuf didn't get genuine support they just forced people using foreign weapons & funds and brutalized them and kept them hostage. Their clan didn't actually support them or even elect them, it was foreigners that did.


I have also seen Haji Ingriis employ this ''clan-talk'' throughout his garbage book , accuse the 1960s Aden & Sharmarke regime of being ''majerteen monarchy'' that there was some sort of clan agenda by the Majerteen to take over but rather it was inviduals with wealth , educational, administrative/civic experience that came to dominate the democratic process as Professor Said Samatar explained and certain few among them had a lot merchant capital to fund election campaigns and connections/experience. But he didn't get that analysis and only saw their clan. He also didn't see that others including the ones i mentioned at times lacked that capital they took bribes and funds from outside or from the treasury that was meant to go to development. Even CIA interferred and funded them, which some speculate they might have been behind the assasination of Sharmarke as Egal was proven to be an asset.

There are others things like the Siad Barre accusation with clan favoratism or hate for certain clan, which lacks evidence. Infact the more i look into it the more he just appears to be someone who loved his people and country, especially all his speeches, tapes of his privates conversations and his writings just reflect that. They also turned him giving concessions and helping out various Somali communities as either boosting a clan or playing clans off eachother. Him helping and rewarding people is painted as some nefarious clan act.
The clan favoritism and hate makes no sense when you consider how they banned clan discrimination and so you also have people complain about that like that murtad Ayan Hirsi complain about it , this is how ''clan-talk'' works assertions imbued into narratives.

It's sad and tragic that Somalis from certain communities were victimized but it is not because of their clan its because of those foreign backed insurgents/warlords and rogue soldiers.

Somali regardless of clan are innocent victims in a conspiracy by foreigners and self serving traitors. They should see it for what it is.

If SNM does not represent Isaaq why do they celebrate the movement every year and why did they vote for for independence in 01. Foreign interference doesn't mean the population doesn't support the movement, Somalis aren't innocent bystanders who are clueless.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Somalis need to see and interpret things outside the prism of clanhood. You will come to find very little is motivated by clan. There is lot of personal individual motives, social -economic , strategic , religious motives. Sometimes even ideological motives that is not related to kinship. It's also a lot of foreign inteferences and influencing at play.

Somalis don't unanimously support people or pledge loyalty because they are from the same clan as them in the political sense. There is a field study and them looking through archives that looked into Ogaden that found this out: @Aseer needs to read this.

Political Identity as Temporal Collapse: Ethiopian Federalism and Contested Ogaden Histories

Abstract. Since the 1980s, analyses of African political identities have emphasized identity manipulation as a governance tool. In the Somali Horn of Afric

academic.oup.com

It's funny even these ajanabi researchers have caught on begun to see passed this ''clan-talk'' as nonsense assertions and thats what they are assertions and false narratives that are employed that is attributing collective behaviour and political loyalties that are not actually real.


The SNM did not represent Isaaq, SDDF did not represent Majerteen, USC did not represent Hawiye , SPM didn't represent merahan. It's all nonsense clan talk imbued into them.

And even ICU which was a coalition didn't only represent hawiye, it got support across different communities for various reasons unrelated to clan and primarily because they spoke to peoples collective interests.

The warlords and Abdullahi Yusuf didn't get genuine support they just forced people using foreign weapons & funds and brutalized them and kept them hostage. Their clan didn't actually support them or even elect them, it was foreigners that did.


I have also seen Haji Ingriis employ this ''clan-talk'' throughout his garbage book , accuse the 1960s Aden & Sharmarke regime of being ''majerteen monarchy'' that there was some sort of clan agenda by the Majerteen to take over but rather it was inviduals with wealth , educational, administrative/civic experience that came to dominate the democratic process as Professor Said Samatar explained and certain few among them had a lot merchant capital to fund election campaigns and connections/experience. But he didn't get that analysis and only saw their clan. He also didn't see that others including the ones i mentioned at times lacked that capital they took bribes and funds from outside or from the treasury that was meant to go to development. Even CIA interferred and funded them, which some speculate they might have been behind the assasination of Sharmarke as Egal was proven to be an asset.

There are others things like the Siad Barre accusation with clan favoratism or hate for certain clan, which lacks evidence. Infact the more i look into it the more he just appears to be someone who loved his people and country, especially all his speeches, tapes of his privates conversations and his writings just reflect that. They also turned him giving concessions and helping out various Somali communities as either boosting a clan or playing clans off eachother. Him helping and rewarding people is painted as some nefarious clan act.
The clan favoritism and hate makes no sense when you consider how they banned clan discrimination and so you also have people complain about that like that murtad Ayan Hirsi complain about it , this is how ''clan-talk'' works assertions imbued into narratives.

It's sad and tragic that Somalis from certain communities were victimized but it is not because of their clan its because of those foreign backed insurgents/warlords and rogue soldiers.

Somali regardless of clan are innocent victims in a conspiracy by foreigners and self serving traitors. They should see it for what it is.

Siad Barre entered power on the back of clan support, with the assassination of Sharmarke, he even exploited inter clan divisions to accomplish the coup. Then he used the MOD arrangement to keep himself in power and enrich himself and his kinsmen. Those who weren’t affected by his actions will obviously beg to differ but that’s the truth of the matter, he was sociopathic, mentally unstable, and Machiavellian.

 

[Idilinaa]

If SNM does not represent Isaaq why do they celebrate the movement every year and why did they vote for for independence in 01. Foreign interference doesn't mean the population doesn't support the movement, Somalis aren't innocent bystanders who are clueless.

A product of current day state propaganda that re-imagined them as hero and liberators fighting an oppressive regim, so they don't know any better.

Isaaqs did not exclusively support the movement at all and they weren't simply bystanders , several of them vehemently opposed them and criticized the insurgency.

 

[Idilinaa]

Siad Barre entered power on the back of clan support, with the assassination of Sharmarke, he even exploited inter clan divisions to accomplish the coup. Then he used the MOD arrangement to keep himself in power and enrich himself and his kinsmen. Those who weren’t affected by his actions will obviously beg to differ but that’s the truth of the matter, he was sociopathic, mentally unstable, and Machiavellian.

Zero proof to what you said. Most members of the revolutionary council ''golaha sare'' were not merahan at all. All but Siad were a mixed group of officers hailing from several different clan lineages and they nominated him into the leadership that's how he came to power.

They had been planning the coup for 2 years before assassination happened and only acted at that moment to save Somalia which was reported to be on the brink of collapse. The assassination of Sharkmarke was not because of inter clan division no evidence of that either. You identify the perpetrators clan identity as Majerteeen to build this false assertion around it. Someone who happens to be of majerteen ancestry assassinating another Majerteen is automatically inter clan division . Everything is clan motivated. I'm convinced qabil centerist thinking is dementedness akin to the mindset of how a racist thinks.

Also the Mod is fiction, he had no alliance between Merahan Ogaden or Darood.

How do we know this? Because he withheld traditional subsidies and arms from Ogadenians and they consequently were angered spreading anti-government pamphlets he arrested a number of them and dismissed a number officers from his government. If he had an alliance with them, how would that had happened?

This is after the drought , where most of the governments attention was towards aiding Somalis domestically.

There are also cases where he dismisses several members and officers from Merahan and jailed them. Even his own family he jailed and dismissed. There was never an alliance.

The last part is also false he was a selfless, sincere man and a true patriot. A true testament to this was how he responded to the 1974 drought. Like i said with the Ogadeni examples he withheld support for them, to prioritize helping Somalis in need domestically

They spent much of the surplus budget that was meant to go to development and spent it on rescuing his own people and creating new job opportunities and housing for those affected.

A person who is sociopathic , mentally unstable, with a focus on enriching his own clan wouldn't be implementing rescue operations, improve the standard of life and quality of his people nationwide and improve education, health care for them, nationalize industry away from private abuse and capitalist exploitation to serve the needs of the people and try to change their ways for the better. He wouldn't fight to liberate them, even when he knew it could cost him support and make the world turn on him. Those are noble actions that reflect his good nature and sound practice.

Abdullahi Yusuf and all those other warlords and corrupt politicians you worship because they hail from the same clan as you never lifted a finger to improve the life quality of their people, only looted , killed them and did shady deals with foreigners to exploit Somalis and allied themselves with the enemy nation against their own and also create monopoly business practices and practice the most unfettered nepostism known to man.

 

[The Oponian Guild]

Zero proof to what you said. Most members of the revolutionary council ''golaha sare'' were not merahan at all. All but Siad were a mixed group of officers hailing from several different clan lineages and they nominated him into the leadership that's how he came to power.

They had been planning the coup for 2 years before assassination happened and only acted at that moment to save Somalia which was reported to be on the brink of collapse. The assassination of Sharkmarke was not because of inter clan division no evidence of that either. You identify the perpetrators clan identity as Majerteeen to build this false assertion around it. Someone who happens to be of majerteen ancestry assassinating another Majerteen is automatically inter clan division . Everything is clan motivated. I'm convinced you qabil centered people are demented akin to the mindset to how a racist thinks.

Also the Mod is fiction, he had no alliance between Merahan Ogaden or Darood.

How do we know this? Because he withheld traditional subsidies and arms from Ogadenians and they consequently were angered spreading anti-government pamphlets he arrested a number of them and dismissed a number officers from his government. If he had an alliance with them, how would that had happened?

This is after the drought , where most of the governments attention was towards aiding Somalis domestically.

There are also cases where he dismisses several members and officers from Merahan and jailed them. Even his own family he jailed and dismissed. There was never an alliance.

The last part is also false he was a selfless, sincere man and a true patriot. A true testament to this was how he responded to the 1974 drought. Like i said with the Ogadeni examples he withheld support for them, to prioritize helping Somalis in need domestically

They spent much of the surplus budget that was meant to go to development and spent it on rescuing his own people and creating new job opportunities and housing for those affected.

A person who is sociopathic , mentally unstable, with a focus on enriching his own clan wouldn't be implementing rescue operations, improve the standard of life and quality of his people nationwide and improve education, health care for them, nationalize industry away from private abuse and capitalist exploitation to serve the needs of the people and try to change their ways for the better. He wouldn't fight to liberate them, even when he knew it could cost him support and make the world turn on him. Those are noble actions that reflect his good nature and sound practice.

Abdullahi Yusuf and all those other warlords and corrupt politicians you worship because they hail from the same clan as you never lifted a finger to improve the life quality of their people, only looted , killed them and did shady deals with foreigners to exploit Somalis and allied themselves with the enemy nation against their own and also create monopoly business practices and practice the most unfettered nepostism known to man.

Instead of turning to insults and comparisons, here’s something to ponder on…. Siad Barre ran away and looted the coffers of the state, and plunged the south into lawlessness, GEN Abdullahi Yusuf spent that time building law and order in the north east, you say he’s done nothing for people of my ilk yet what do you call puntland? Doing all that while taking part in the peace process and working in his own deegan, you accuse of him of corruption and maltreatment of the general populace, yet once again where is the evidence?

I urge you to research him instead of generalising and lumping him in with the other characters of that era.