Two Somali professors win prestigious award for their research on the 'boundaries of Somaliness'

[SomaliSpotter]

Were all Isaaqs part of the SNM? Were all Hawiyes part of the USC? Were all Majerteens part of the SSDF? Were all Rahanweyn part of SDM? I can go on and on. Most Somalis were not part of clan militias but the actions of a few are used to taint the name of entire clans, but when it comes to the Bantu it's a different story? They participated in the civil war, were part and parcel of Barre's ugly history, and even today their hands are far from clean. Stop treating them like a protected class.

@ciddhartha cite figures for how many ethnic Somalis were part of clan militias. I'll wait.

But that's where you're wrong though. No sane, decent person should hold other innocent Somalis responsible for what some people from their clans did. You see, when you make qab+iil your religion and see everything in the eyes of clan then to you it's all or nothing. I never did and will never do. I see people as individuals and not as a collection of all evil or all good.

Anyway, in this specific case, you and I both know we were talking about who the majority of the clans who took part in the destruction of Somalia were, and the ones who killed one another in general. No minority clan was part of that mess in any way or shape, apart from the small number of individuals we've mentioned early. If you wanna rewrite history, just like this Eno guy and his folks are doing, then by all means. But don't forget, the Somalis who lived in the country, regardless of their tribes, know the history for what it's. No amount of fadhi-ku-dirir on internet forums will change that.

And by the way, if, as you've just mentioned, all tribes had people that took part in the civil-war, where will they expelled to? Or that only applies to the Bantus? O dear! lol

 

[ciddhartha]

part and parcel

 

[SomaliSpotter]

part and parcel

Did you make that Meme?

 

[Duchess]

But that's where you're wrong though. No sane, decent person should hold other innocent Somalis responsible for what some people from their clans did. You see, when you make qab+iil your religion and see everything in the eyes of clan then to you it's all or nothing. I never did and will never do. I see people as individuals and not as a collection of all evil or all good.

Anyway, in this specific case, you and I both know we were talking about who the majority of the clans who took part in the destruction of Somalia were, and the ones who killed one another in general. No minority clan was part of that mess in any way or shape, apart from the small number of individuals we've mentioned early. If you wanna rewrite history, just like this Eno guy and his folks are doing, then by all means. But don't forget, the Somalis who lived in the country, regardless of their tribes, know the history for what it's. No amount of fadhi-ku-dirir on internet forums will change that.

And by the way, if, as you've just mentioned, all tribes had people that took part in the civil-war, where will they expelled to? Or that only applies to the Bantus? O dear! lol

In your first paragraph you state that you see people as individuals, but in the second paragraph you go on to talk about "majority of the clans who took part in the destruction of Somalia"... Which is it? Either individuals were part of clan militias or clans as a whole were. You can't claim that a few Bantu individuals sided with the USC, but ethnic Somalis joined clan militias en-masse. That makes zero sense.

I'm not rewriting history. Everything I've mentioned is documented and can be found online. The Bantus in the South allied with the USC, not as individuals but as a clan. I don't understand why youre trying to deny it? You're the one peddling revisionist history here sxb, not me.

 

[Jubba_Man]

Bantus sided with the USC during the civil war and fought in the south for the USC under the banner of Kamasle Hawiye. This well is documented. The Bantu were also part and parcel of the forces who were sent to Mudug to commit atrocities against the Majerteen. Fast-forward to 2015 and many of them are part of Al-Shabaab. I'm shocked that you're trying to paint the Bantu as some peace-loving community that is incapable of harm.

I have no problem with other 0.5 communities but the Bantu are a different story. I support their expulsion from Somalia.

Evidence? As SS said, a handful of soldiers cannot be used to implicate an entire community that have historically been known as a peaceful people who just want to farm in peace. Then again, the most you post on this matter, the more it sounds like you are citing MJ history revisionism. If it is indeed true that bantus were a major component of the USC, then surely they wouldn't be living in the numbers that they do in Jubbaland and Puntland. They would have been completely wiped out by now.

The truth of the matter is, no one in Somalia hates the bantus. Many might look down on them, but no one has the hatred that they do for enemy clans. This is evidenced by the fact bantus can live and thrive in certain regions of Somalia that a Hawiye or Isaac would have their life endangered just for simply visiting. That's why this bantu hatred is only ever seen among people who grew up in qurbaha. It has absolutely no credibility back home.

 

[ciddhartha]

Did you make that Meme?

Yes and no. It was too easy for me to claim it

 

[Duchess]

@Darod_Supremacy

First, they don't live in large numbers in Puntland. You're confusing the D&M for Bantus. Second, why would Puntlanders target innocent IDPs?

So because Bantus in Puntland are not being dragged on the streets, they're an innocent community who have never harmed Somalis?

This is exactly why I won't bother providing you with 'evidence'. You're a troll of the highest order and I won't waste my time copying & pasting info you can readily access on Google.

@ciddhartha nayaa stay on topic or else you'll be the first to get a reply ban.

 

[Kaafiye]

Evidence? As SS said, a handful of soldiers cannot be used to implicate an entire community that have historically been known as a peaceful people who just want to farm in peace. Then again, the most you post on this matter, the more it sounds like you are citing MJ history revisionism. If it is indeed true that bantus were a major component of the USC, then surely they wouldn't be living in the numbers that they do in Jubbaland and Puntland. They would have been completely wiped out by now.

The truth of the matter is, no one in Somalia hates the bantus. Many might look down on them, but no one has the hatred that they do for enemy clans. This is evidenced by the fact bantus can live and thrive in certain regions of Somalia that a Hawiye or Isaac would have their life endangered just for simply visiting. That's why this bantu hatred is only ever seen among people who grew up in qurbaha. It has absolutely no credibility back home.

What the hell are you talking about? I have many friends who currently live in Somalia or who've lived there quite recently when have the exact same opinions as me. The thousands of Bantus who live in Punt land have arrived there recently for job opportunities and they've already started to displace the Somali locals. But you're too stupid to acknowledge this problem here, and will only speak up when it's already too late.

And yes, the Somali tribal tensions are very high, but this is nothing compared to the tensions that we had back in the 1990's, and this current state of affairs in Somalia is a very temporary phase that most countries go through from time to time. But you have absolutely no excuse to ignore future permanent problems while judging the temporary situations of today.

If we Somalis lose our country in 50 years, then that's an irreversible loss that we can't undo. If the Bantus become a majority in the country then that will be irreversible. So don't come to me with that bullshit.

 

[SomaliSpotter]

In your first paragraph you state that you see people as individuals, but in the second paragraph you go on to talk about "majority of the clans who took part in the destruction of Somalia"... Which is it? Either individuals were part of clan militias or clans as a whole were. You can't claim that a few Bantu individuals sided with the USC, but ethnic Somalis joined clan militias en-masse. That makes zero sense.

I'm not rewriting history. Everything I've mentioned is documented and can be found online. The Bantus in the South allied with the USC, not as individuals but as a clan. I don't understand why youre trying to deny it? You're the one peddling revisionist history here sxb, not me.

Majority of the clans, most of the clans, the major individual clans? What is so difficult to understand about that? And how is that a contradiction to my other statement? I didn't know that 'majority of the clans' = 'each and every person from those clans'. Duchess, just stop it, please. Spend your time on other important stuff in your life. You're a young, brilliant girl and immersing yourself in the world of tribalism will consume you and turn you into a mad person. Waa iga talo uun. lol

Anyway, this will turn into a wordplay & tit-for-tat so I am gonna hop off the baabuur here. Adios, everyone.

 

[Duchess]

Majority of the clans, most of the clans, the major individual clans? What is so difficult to understand about that? And how is that a contradiction to my other statement? I didn't know that 'majority of the clans' = 'each and every person from those clans'. Duchess, just stop it, please. Spend your time on other important stuff in your life. You're a young, brilliant girl and immersing yourself in the world of tribalism will consume you and turn you into a mad person. Waa iga talo uun. lol

Anyway, this will turn into a wordplay & tit-for-tat so I am gonna hop off the baabuur here. Adios, everyone.

I don't consider the Bantu a Somali tribe or clan, but an entirely different ethnic and racial group that was forced upon us by Arabs. They are now trying to hijack the 0.5 label and sideline minority groups that have actually been in Somalia for much longer and contributed to our culture ( ie the cadcad communities).

As for your statement, yes you're contradicting yourself and showing a clear bias in favor of the Bantu. The Bantu aligned with the USC militia, but you claim it was individuals and not the entire Bantu group..well isn't the same true for the USC, SNF, SPM,SSDF etc? The Bantu contributed to the destruction of Somalia and they continue to contribute to it through their involvement with Al-Shabaab. People are ready to blame ethnic Somalis for their part in this destruction, but the Bantu are treated like a protected class and given a pass for their part in it. Why?

 

[ciddhartha]

As @Idol would say, the cuqdad is real

 

[Jubba_Man]

First, they don't live in large numbers in Puntland. You're confusing the D&M for Bantus. Second, why would Puntlanders target innocent IDPs?

Maybe you misunderstood me, but there is clearly a substantial minority of bantus living in Puntland as non-IDPs. They live all over the Somali peninsula. You can debate the exact numbers all you want, but at least it is > 1 bantu. I have never heard of a single Hawiye or Isaac living there, as they would be dragged out and shot for visiting from what I remember. Not that I am against that or anything, but it just supports what I've been saying all along about your bantu hatred and its lack of credibility in the Somali peninsula. The overwhelming majority of the people pay no attention to bantus and don't mind sharing deegans with them, and this compares starkly to how they feel with so-called their fellow "ethnic Somalis" of different tribes where entire cities are split by a line.

So because Bantus in Puntland are not being dragged on the streets, they're an innocent community who have never harmed Somalis?

The actions of one or two bantus doesn't taint the image of the rest. Most bantus emphatically didn't take a side during the civil war, and just focused internally on themselves. That is why they generally have no problem living anywhere in the Somali peninsula and thriving, while people from hostile "ethnic Somali" tribes would have to lie or face being killed if they go to different regions that belong to different tribes.

 

[Duchess]

Maybe you misunderstood me, but there is clearly a substantial minority of bantus living in Puntland as non-IDPs. They live all over the Somali peninsula. You can debate the exact numbers all you want, but at least it is > 1 bantu. I have never heard of a single Hawiye or Isaac living there, as they would be dragged out and shot for visiting from what I remember. Not that I am against that or anything, but it just supports what I've been saying all along about your bantu hatred and its lack of credibility in the Somali peninsula. The overwhelming majority of the people pay no attention to bantus and don't mind sharing deegans with them, and this compares starkly to how they feel with so-called their fellow "ethnic Somalis" of different tribes where entire cities are split by a line.



The actions of one or two bantus doesn't taint the image of the rest. Most bantus emphatically didn't take a side during the civil war, and just focused internally on themselves. That is why they generally have no problem living anywhere in the Somali peninsula and thriving, while people from hostile "ethnic Somali" tribes would have to lie or face being killed if they go to different regions that belong to different tribes.

There are no Isaaq or Hawiye in Puntland because they'd be dragged out into the street and shot? Troll harder, please. Why then is there an Isaaq neighborhood in Bosaso?

I won't even bother to address the rest of your bs.

 

[SuldaanSeven]

i believe that bantu's are an existential demographic threat and nothing more but i believe the biggest threats to somalis are none other than Somalis, the tension between our clan leaders/politicians is very high and there is no trust amongst them nor is there any love between them. i am of the oppinion that a second somali war is inevitable, this one will be worst than before because this war will be better organised than the last.

lets just analyse these facts - politicians in hargeisa are ready to go to war with politicians in garowe
- politicians in garowe are ready to go to war with politicians in hargeisa
- politicians in the southern states who are lead by mugdisho are allied to politicians in garowe.

the dividing lines is qabil and every man supports his qabil. the enmity between darood + isaaq politcians is very real and should not be discredited, darood politicians are allied to hawiye politicians and hawiye politicians are well aware of how the snm betrayed the usc in the fight against siyad barre when snm after defeating siyad barres army in the north and chasing them out immidiatly declared independence on the grounds that somaliland was a country during the british empire days.

the biggest threat to somalis is an enemy somali clan but the biggest demographic threat to a all these waring somali clans is bantus and oromos who are flooding the somali peninsula.

 

[Jubba_Man]

There are no Isaaq or Hawiye in Puntland because they'd be dragged out into the street and shot? Troll harder, please. Why then is there an Isaaq neighborhood in Bosaso?

One neighborhood in Bosaso proves anything? Those people have been living there for several decades now. It would significantly harm your agenda of appearing to be the "civilized" group of the war if you committed genocide against them, which is the only reason you don't go through with it. Let's not try to use a handful of families as an example to refute the reality of 99.99% of Isaacs who don't live and Puntland and all of Hawiyes and them needing to conceal who they are really are just to visit or passing through. You sound incredibly clueless about the realities on the ground, and I'm not surprised. Almost no one in Somalia ascribes to these foreign concepts of nationalism, fascism, and "ethnic Somali". Most people only have active hatred for the enemy tribes, and pay absolutely no attention to 0.5s. Why? Because that's how our culture has always been. We have never paid these minorities any attention, and have always focused all of our attention in wiping out the opposing tribe, who now people in the qurbaha are now saying are the same people and apart of the same ethnic group.

I won't even bother to address the rest of your bs.

Of course, because you simply can't. It's okay to lose arguments. We all do every now and again. You and the others who think like you have absolutely no pegs to stand on in this argument.

 

[John Michael]

i believe that bantu's are an existential demographic threat and nothing more but i believe the biggest threats to somalis are none other than Somalis, the tension between our clan leaders/politicians is very high and there is no trust amongst them nor is there any love between them. i am of the oppinion that a second somali war is inevitable, this one will be worst than before because this war will be better organised than the last.

lets just analyse these facts - politicians in hargeisa are ready to go to war with politicians in garowe
- politicians in garowe are ready to go to war with politicians in hargeisa
- politicians in the southern states who are lead by mugdisho are allied to politicians in garowe.

the dividing lines is qabil and every man supports his qabil. the enmity between darood + isaaq politcians is very real and should not be discredited, darood politicians are allied to hawiye politicians and hawiye politicians are well aware of how the snm betrayed the usc in the fight against siyad barre when snm after defeating siyad barres army in the north and chasing them out immidiatly declared independence on the grounds that somaliland was a country during the british empire days.

the biggest threat to somalis is an enemy somali clan but the biggest demographic threat to a all these waring somali clans is bantus and oromos who are flooding the somali peninsula.

You win the sspot award for bullshit history. You've combined every batshit crazy conspiracy theory all into one post.

Never in my life have I heard someone say hawiye and darod are in an alliance. Not to mention wasn't aideed one of the first to acknowledge Somaliland.

 

[Jubba_Man]

What the hell are you talking about? I have many friends who currently live in Somalia or who've lived there quite recently when have the exact same opinions as me. The thousands of Bantus who live in Punt land have arrived there recently for job opportunities and they've already started to displace the Somali locals. But you're too stupid to acknowledge this problem here, and will only speak up when it's already too late.

These are people who most likely grew up in the qurbaha. They are not people who grew up there, for sure. Why do I say that? Because Somali culture does not emphasize hatred of minorities. At worst, they'll look down on them for being bantu, but not hatred that would warrant killing them on sight like is the situation with enemy tribes.

I also don't subscribe to the notion of "Somali ethnic group". So, I really couldn't careless if they become the majority in the Somali peninsula. This is also why most people in the Somali peninsula don't care about this "demographic issue", because they don't believe in this concept of the Somali ethnic group. Somali culture also doesn't acknowledge the existence of such an ethnic group. That's why your nationalist and fascist views will never gain any momentum with the people. Somali nationalism is a collective delusion that's based on foreign concepts that have been imposed on the people living in the Somali peninsula. The only genuine loyalty people have that is endorsed by Somali culture is to their tribe. This is also why despite a couple of decades of nationalist propaganda and brainwashing, the entire country unraveled in mere months as tribal militias were formed almost immediately. If 21+ years of nationalist propaganda couldn't get people to beyond unwavering loyalty to their tribe only, nothing will.

And yes, the Somali tribal tensions are very high, but this is nothing compared to the tensions that we had back in the 1990's, and this current state of affairs in Somalia is a very temporary phase that most countries go through from time to time. But you have absolutely no excuse to ignore future permanent problems while judging the temporary situations of today.

Oh, trust me. It's just as bad as ever. Entire regions want to secede and forge a new country, a new history, a new culture, and a new identity. They want to secede and gain independence from the other tribe and cannot stand living with them. This is not a temporary phase, but it's been going for 24+ years. It will soon equal the age of the Somali republic. I don't understand in what mindset is that considered a "temporary phase". The country is permanently fragmented and is only waiting to be dealt the final, symbolic blow.

 

[SuldaanSeven]

You win the sspot award for bullshit history. You've combined every batshit crazy conspiracy theory all into one post.

Never in my life have I heard someone say hawiye and darod are in an alliance. Not to mention wasn't aideed one of the first to acknowledge Somaliland.

i am just stating the facts and that is each clan is loyal to there politicians. isaaqs are loyal to president silanyo, hawiyes are loyal to president hassan sheikh and jebertis are loyal to abdiweli gaas and madobey of jubaland. but because you're a women you might not see it like this and so you believe in the whole somali unity ideology which holds no wait on the ground in the somali peninsula. and as i've stated each qabil is lead by its politicians, each politician has some claim which puts them at odds with the politician from the opposit qabil, isaaq politician want to split the somali republic, majerteen politician in puntland want to claim sool and sanaag which puts them at logger heads with isaaq politicians, hawiye politicians want to rule both isaaq and darood politicians, both hawiye president and darood presidents madobey and abdiweli gass are against isaaq politicians dividing somalia. so where is the conspiracy theory in any of this? just to make it clear i tried to make this as unbiased as i can and not demonizing a particular qabil.

 

[SuldaanSeven]

anyway this was about bantu and i believe bantus are a demographic threat to somalis, i also believe habashi immigrants flooding the north are also a demographic threat. this could be a major challenge for divided somalis who do not trust each other due to clan issues.

 

[Boqorka Bantus]

The Eno brothers are very objective and challenging historical inaccuracies by the dominant group sang for their toddlers as lullabies. They were led to believe abkoo Daarood was Yemeni who refused to come down from a tree because he thought the indigenous ugly Dir savages will eat him. They didn't spear him but offered to carry him on his back like an emperor and considered him to be a powerful person. Then, they were told, Isxaaqs, Hawiye, Dir and Digil Mirif have no heroic figures but Daaroods had the most two important in Somali history. They claimed Ahmed Gran an Arab guy and equate the Mad Mullah who was the first Ahmed Godane as a hero.

Now, Dutchess malaaqadda Majeerteenya who never met Bantus claims that we were as guilty as warlords like Morgan and other Darod warlords without submitting any source. You have Kafiye who sees in his dreams or nightmares a Bantu Somali with a spear hunting for him and his Somali and swears that we ought to get him and others. Which is it? We Bantus will make sure that our brothers Amisom troops hand us all their weapons before they leave Somalia so we can march all the way to Bosaso and make MJ's our es rather than Tigrey es. We are coming Kafiya.


In this thread, are they filming the Somali version of the movie, "Gods must be crazy"? God bless the Eno brothers. They had lit the torches on the faces of these liars.

Shactirada noo wadaa.