Were the Fakr al Din and Muzaffar dynasties Somali or Arab/Persian

[Diaspora ambassador]

The new comers on sspot need to partake into the history of somalia. We have numerous threads that debunk the arab or persian origins of xamar.

Imagine a bunch of arabs migrating to southern somalia because it wasn't safe form them no more. Claiming all of xamar's history. The coonery is just mind boggling.

These sandnigger descendants must be dealt with. I even heard one of them saying we created the somali culture. I aksed him how is it possible when the culture is older than the pyramids of giza.

He became as pale as elza from frozen

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

@Som Why aren't you responding to me?

 

[Som]

Hold up doesn't xamar's history stretch back to the era of the ancient greeks?

You know our ancient port cities.

Or did the arabs create xamar back then aswell.

Either you believe in the arab propaganda to lesser our rank in the region or you will proudly say no xamar was founded and ruled by somalis.

Come on know somalis fought each other how in the hell did some arabs come along without an army to settle in somali lands.

Make it make sense please

No bro. Sarapion was an ancient port city close to Mogadishu but it wasn't the same city
Modern day mogadishu was founded un the 8-9th century by a few arab clans. After a few years somalis started to enter the city . By the 14th century the rulers of xamar were somalis as ibn battuta suggests .
In the 17th century hawiye somalis conquered xamar from the mixed arab-somali , arabs were allowed some to still have some important positions in religion and judiciary system but they gradually lost their influence.
This is based on accounts of historians, there are many early arabic inscriptions that mention the arab clans that migrated to Mogadishu.
I'm not belittling our history, just being accurate.
Arabs founded medieval Xamar, we came over ans took the city .
I'm ready to accept any evidence that contradicts my claims.

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

No bro. Sarapion was an ancient port city close to Mogadishu but it wasn't the same city
Modern day mogadishu was founded un the 8-9th century by a few arab clans. After a few years somalis started to enter the city . By the 14th century the rulers of xamar were somalis as ibn battuta suggests .
In the 17th century hawiye somalis conquered xamar from the mixed arab-somali , arabs were allowed some to still have some important positions in religion and judiciary system but they gradually lost their influence.
This is based on accounts of historians, there are many early arabic inscriptions that mention the arab clans that migrated to Mogadishu.
I'm not belittling our history, just being accurate.
Arabs founded medieval Xamar, we came over ans took the city .
I'm ready to accept any evidence that contradicts my claims.

Bring your evidence you are the one claiming that non somalis founded a somali city.

What's next the house of garen is white? And somalis are half breed children of africans and arabs?

Come on know admit it and stop pushing your propaganda.

Some of us got more brain cells than two and know about their history.

Xamar is ours and was created by us.

So the arabs lived in a city which heavily traded with the rest of the world without being documented by the people of that era?
Or are your arabs transformed into somali looking people overnight since the people of xamar and the people of the north where pretty much the same aka somali.

Again stop the bs

 

[Mckenzie]

Moorshe = Ajuuran

Iskaashato = mudulood

Dhabarweyne = ?

Bendhabow = ?

are Dhabarweyne and Bendhabow Hawiye or another samaale clan?

Dhabarweyne are Xawaadle, Iskaashato are Murursade, Bandhabow is Silcis. Saddex Geedi is also another group that settled in Xamar, they were 3 men who came to the city together, they were 1 Udeejeen, 1 Cayr and 1 Wacdaan.

Some

Do you have any other sources? I read many sources from Enrico Cerulli that say xamar was founded by arab families who were later assimilated by Somalis who arrived in the city later. Your French sources talks about Hawiyes living in the hinterlands which is true, but it doesn't say much about the founders of Xamar.
If u have more sources I'll be more than happy to change my mind.

The best source i have seen on Xamar history is by Scott Reese, he has 2 books on the Benadir.

 

[Som]

Dhabarweyne are Xawaadle, Iskaashato are Murursade, Bandhabow is Silcis. Saddex Geedi is also another group that settled in Xamar, they were 3 men who came to the city together, they were 1 Udeejeen, 1 Cayr and 1 Wacdaan.



View attachment 142386

The best source i have seen on Xamar history is by Scott Reese, he has 2 books on the Benadir.

Thank you I'll definitely check this out.

 

[Som]

Bring your evidence you are the one claiming that non somalis founded a somali city.

What's next the house of garen is white? And somalis are half breed children of africans and arabs?

Come on know admit it and stop pushing your propaganda.

Some of us got more brain cells than two and know about their history.

Xamar is ours and was created by us.

So the arabs lived in a city which heavily traded with the rest of the world without being documented by the people of that era?
Or are your arabs transformed into somali looking people overnight since the people of xamar and the people of the north where pretty much the same aka somali.

Again stop the bs

Traditional accounts put the first Arab settlement of Mogadishu at around the second half of the 8th century of which 2 Arabic inscriptions in the town are attributed too. Although the height of influx occurred in the beginning of the 10th century when Arabs from al-Ahsa left their homeland in the Persian gulf and settled in Mogadishu for religious reasons. Eventually, this inspired many more Arab, but also Persian migrants to settle in Mogadishu which gave birth too the Mogadishu confederation of tribes up which ruled the city until the creation of the Mogadishu Sultanate by Sultan Fakhr-Ad-Din. Enrico Cerulli published many Arabic inscriptions of prominent Arab and Persian individuals from that time. There are 3 surviving structures from that era of which the Jami', Arba' Rukun and Fakhr ad-Din mosques. The Jami' mosque bears the inscription date 1238
Source cambridge history of africa.

This doesn't mean xamar is not a somali city, wallahi I'm not pushing propaganda.
If you bring me evidence that ethnic somalis founded Xamar I will retract my statements and apologize. Wallahi.

 

[Farjano-Walad]

No bro. Sarapion was an ancient port city close to Mogadishu but it wasn't the same city
Modern day mogadishu was founded un the 8-9th century by a few arab clans. After a few years somalis started to enter the city . By the 14th century the rulers of xamar were somalis as ibn battuta suggests .
In the 17th century hawiye somalis conquered xamar from the mixed arab-somali , arabs were allowed some to still have some important positions in religion and judiciary system but they gradually lost their influence.
This is based on accounts of historians, there are many early arabic inscriptions that mention the arab clans that migrated to Mogadishu.
I'm not belittling our history, just being accurate.
Arabs founded medieval Xamar, we came over ans took the city .
I'm ready to accept any evidence that contradicts my claims.

where is your evidence? And Somali came after a few years when Arabs apparently founded it ?

Sources sxb.

ajuuran ruled that area for god knows how many centuries.

we need sources of your claims bro

 

[Mckenzie]

Traditional accounts put the first Arab settlement of Mogadishu at around the second half of the 8th century of which 2 Arabic inscriptions in the town are attributed too. Although the height of influx occurred in the beginning of the 10th century when Arabs from al-Ahsa left their homeland in the Persian gulf and settled in Mogadishu for religious reasons. Eventually, this inspired many more Arab, but also Persian migrants to settle in Mogadishu which gave birth too the Mogadishu confederation of tribes up which ruled the city until the creation of the Mogadishu Sultanate by Sultan Fakhr-Ad-Din. Enrico Cerulli published many Arabic inscriptions of prominent Arab and Persian individuals from that time. There are 3 surviving structures from that era of which the Jami', Arba' Rukun and Fakhr ad-Din mosques. The Jami' mosque bears the inscription date 1238
Source cambridge history of africa.

This doesn't mean xamar is not a somali city, wallahi I'm not pushing propaganda.
If you bring me evidence that ethnic somalis founded Xamar I will retract my statements and apologize. Wallahi.

I.M Lewis touches on the subject too. The Arabs were trade partners, judges, priests and lived with different Somali clan families, especially the Xaatimi (reer Baraawe).

It is historically divided into two territorial divisions. Hamarweyn (lit. 'old or greater' Mogadishu) and Shangani. Hamarweyn is traditionally composed of four groups ( loosely organised by descent ) : the Morshe , the Iskashatto , the Dabbarweyn and the Bandabbow . Each of these in turn has its own attached accessory groups ( e . g . the Hatimi , Aydarus ...

SOURCE Understanding Somalia and Somaliland: Culture, History, Society

There has been a continuous migration in the south for hundreds of years that it is hard to put a date stamp. For example, the Imamate invasion was prior to the Portugese attack but there have been nomadic migrations since.

 

[Farjano-Walad]

Traditional accounts put the first Arab settlement of Mogadishu at around the second half of the 8th century of which 2 Arabic inscriptions in the town are attributed too. Although the height of influx occurred in the beginning of the 10th century when Arabs from al-Ahsa left their homeland in the Persian gulf and settled in Mogadishu for religious reasons. Eventually, this inspired many more Arab, but also Persian migrants to settle in Mogadishu which gave birth too the Mogadishu confederation of tribes up which ruled the city until the creation of the Mogadishu Sultanate by Sultan Fakhr-Ad-Din. Enrico Cerulli published many Arabic inscriptions of prominent Arab and Persian individuals from that time. There are 3 surviving structures from that era of which the Jami', Arba' Rukun and Fakhr ad-Din mosques. The Jami' mosque bears the inscription date 1238
Source cambridge history of africa.

This doesn't mean xamar is not a somali city, wallahi I'm not pushing propaganda.
If you bring me evidence that ethnic somalis founded Xamar I will retract my statements and apologize. Wallahi.

so what. The Ottoman Empire and Persians and evening moghal of India and even mongols used the Arabic script.

Somalis came into contact with Islam during the live of the nabi saw

Umar ibn qatab was getting letters of Somalis accepting Islam

we have a mosque in zaylac with two qiblah. News flash bro. The nabi saw prayed towards Jerusalem First then ordered to pray towards makkah

Somalis accepted Islam During the nabi saw live time. and this is why they never conquered us.

every European spoke Latin as lingua Franca and all Muslims spoke Arabic till 20th century and wrote in it even ahmed gurey book. It does not mean they were Arabs.

besides if Arabs had power in xamar they would have left architecture and books etc like they did in Iran and Spain and. Uzbekistan

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

Traditional accounts put the first Arab settlement of Mogadishu at around the second half of the 8th century of which 2 Arabic inscriptions in the town are attributed too. Although the height of influx occurred in the beginning of the 10th century when Arabs from al-Ahsa left their homeland in the Persian gulf and settled in Mogadishu for religious reasons. Eventually, this inspired many more Arab, but also Persian migrants to settle in Mogadishu which gave birth too the Mogadishu confederation of tribes up which ruled the city until the creation of the Mogadishu Sultanate by Sultan Fakhr-Ad-Din. Enrico Cerulli published many Arabic inscriptions of prominent Arab and Persian individuals from that time. There are 3 surviving structures from that era of which the Jami', Arba' Rukun and Fakhr ad-Din mosques. The Jami' mosque bears the inscription date 1238
Source cambridge history of africa.

This doesn't mean xamar is not a somali city, wallahi I'm not pushing propaganda.
If you bring me evidence that ethnic somalis founded Xamar I will retract my statements and apologize. Wallahi.

I don't need to bring any evidence yiu are the one changing our history. Even me a full northerner who has almost nothing to do with the southern capital doesn't change it.

If you want to go to the extreme go dig up the graves of the people of that era.

Again no non somali has founded xamar.

 

[Som]

so what. The Ottoman Empire and Persians and evening moghal of India and even mongols used the Arabic script.

Somalis came into contact with Islam during the live of the nabi saw

Umar ibn qatab was getting letters of Somalis accepting Islam

we have a mosque in zaylac with two qiblah. News flash bro. The nabi saw prayed towards Jerusalem First then ordered to pray towards makkah

Somalis accepted Islam During the nabi saw live time. and this is why they never conquered us.

every European spoke Latin as lingua Franca and all Muslims spoke Arabic till 20th century and wrote in it even ahmed gurey book. It does not mean they were Arabs.

besides if Arabs had power in xamar they would have left architecture and books etc like they did in Iran and Spain and. Uzbekistan

Do u have any evidence about umar al Khattab getting letters from Somalis?
As i said if I'm ready to change my mind. This is just what i read from prominent historians. Even some somali scholars admit that the first settelment in Xamar was started by arabs

 

[Som]

I don't need to bring any evidence yiu are the one changing our history. Even me a full northerner who has almost nothing to do with the southern capital doesn't change it.

If you want to go to the extreme go dig up the graves of the people of that era.

Again no non somali has founded xamar.

I'm just presenting the available evidence

 

[Diaspora ambassador]

I'm just presenting the available evidence

Yet that evidence is wrong.

Use your logic, where is the arab army. Why didn't the arabs take more land. And why are they a minority in xamar whilst they arr thr so called founders

 

[Farjano-Walad]

Do u have any evidence about umar al Khattab getting letters from Somalis?
As i said if I'm ready to change my mind. This is just what i read from prominent historians. Even some somali scholars admit that the first settelment in Xamar was started by arabs

Then where are these phantom Arabs their armies the civilisation the architecture at least they are stayed in Zanzibar for 1000 years so where is the evidence where is the architecture

 

[Som]

Yet that evidence is wrong.

Use your logic, where is the arab army. Why didn't the arabs take more land. And why are they a minority in xamar whilst they arr thr so called founders

Because as i said they came in small numbers and then they were assimilated. Bro I'm actually saying we ruled the city of Mogadishu , but the early founders were arab merchants. They didn't need an army because we were both muslim, there was no war between somalis and arabs. They came to mogadishu and started a settelment, somalis joined them and we ruked together as Muslims, throughout the years the arab minority was assimilated into modern day benadiri clans.
This is my opinion based on available evidence

 

[Som]

Then where are these phantom Arabs their armies the civilisation the architecture at least they are stayed in Zanzibar for 1000 years so where is the evidence where is the architecture

As i said they were small numbers of merchants. I never said our situation was like in Zanzibar. Anyways many buildings in Xamar Weyne have arabic inscriptions mentioning arab clans who lived there. At least this is what Enrico Cerulli(italian historian) found in Xamar

 

[Grant]

Moorshe = Ajuuran

Iskaashato = mudulood

Dhabarweyne = ?

Bendhabow = ?

are Dhabarweyne and Bendhabow subclans of Hawiye or an other samaale clan?

See especially Scott Reese: Renewers of the age, Holy Men andSocial Discourse in Colonial Benaadir, Brill, 2008. Page 42 and check the index.

Ajuraan become influential in the Lower Shabelli in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Dubbarwayn claim descent from the Hawadle and Murusade, who arrive following the Ajuraan.

Mudulood are part of Hiraab, who come after and destroy the Ajuraan.

Bandawow are a composite of Hawiye (Amin Khalifow); Isaaq (Ahmad Nur); Ajuran (Shebow); Bade Ade (Khurywe) and Ogaden (Antrow).

See "The Hawiyye Oral Traditions." The Darandoole Mudulood kill the Muzzaffar Governor some time between 1590 and 1625, following which the cadet house of the Yaquub Abgaal enter Shingani and intermarry with the Arab and Persian trading houses. Most of the Hiraab remained in the hinterland.

Until this time there was a wall to keep the Hawiyye and other interior folks out of the city at night.

Yaquub Sultanate

The emergence of the Imamate of Yaaquub in Mogadishu is related to the tyrannical rule of the Ajuran in the interior, and the attraction of the growing Mogadishu wealth as a consequence of its thri…

xaqdoon.wordpress.com

(Notice that Falsy's note has no sources, and, as usual, nothing to stand on. )



The Hiraab kill the last Imam of Ajuraan at Ceel Cawl in 1686.

Abtirsi.com | Imamate of Ajuran

 

[Factz]

Because as i said they came in small numbers and then they were assimilated. Bro I'm actually saying we ruled the city of Mogadishu , but the early founders were arab merchants. They didn't need an army because we were both muslim, there was no war between somalis and arabs. They came to mogadishu and started a settelment, somalis joined them and we ruked together as Muslims, throughout the years the arab minority was assimilated into modern day benadiri clans.
This is my opinion based on available evidence

Do you honestly believe a foreign ship can come and settle into the coast to establish their own settlement? You make it seem like there was no settlement before their arrival. Trading cities have existed throughout Horn of Africa for thousands of years.

Why did you ignore this source when @Mckenzie showed you? Arabs did not found Mogadishu or any Benadir port.

Founded by Somalis, the city was majority Somalis and ruled by Somalis. Immigrants assimilated into the society and Somalis controlled the flow of them, being able to deny and expel them at will.

And these three tidbits.

So it is established by this book that Somalis, and our ancestors lived in the Horn of Africa and had trading cities as noted by Greek and Arab cartographers. It is also known that 200 years before Ibn Battuta came to Mogadishu and described it as a predominately Somali city ruled by a Somali Sultan, al-Idrisi described Merca, Mogadishu and the settlements inbetween them around the 'Nile of Mogadishu' to be predominately Somali, infact It is also established that Mogadishu was one of the original coastal settlements of the Somali people. 100 years after that and before Ibn Battuta came, another Arab cartographer described it as the homeland of a Somali people.

It is established that Mogadishu amongst other coastal cities, were founded and inhabited by the ancestors of the Somali. After a long while the city grew more and more after inital trade with Arab, Persian, Indian, Chinese traders. Arab and Persian traders who would later settle in the city. There is a reason they were drawn to the city. And later the city would turn into a Sultanate led by a Somali Sultan, who would turn the city into a religious and trading center, that allowed for more immigrants to arrive.

 

[Som]

See especially Scott Reese: Renewers of the age, Holy Men andSocial Discourse in Colonial Benaadir, Brill, 2008. Page 42 and check the index.

Ajuraan become influential in the Lower Shabelli in the 16th and 17th centuries.

Dubbarwayn claim descent from the Hawadle and Murusade, who arrive following the Ajuraan.

Mudulood are part of Hiraab, who come after and destroy the Ajuraan.

Bandawow are a composite of Hawiye (Amin Khalifow); Isaaq (Ahmad Nur); Ajuran (Shebow); Bade Ade (Khurywe) and Ogaden (Antrow).

See "The Hawiyye Oral Traditions." The Darandoole Mudulood kill the Muzzaffar Governor some time between 1590 and 1625, following which the cadet house of the Yaquub Abgaal enter Shingani and intermarry with the Arab and Persian trading houses. Most of the Hiraab remained in the hinterland.

Until this time there was a wall to keep the Hawiyye and other interior folks out of the city at night.

Yaquub Sultanate

The emergence of the Imamate of Yaaquub in Mogadishu is related to the tyrannical rule of the Ajuran in the interior, and the attraction of the growing Mogadishu wealth as a consequence of its thri…

xaqdoon.wordpress.com

(Notice that Falsy's note has no sources, and, as usual, nothing to stand on. )



The Hiraab kill the last Imam of Ajuraan at Ceel Cawl in 1686.

Abtirsi.com | Imamate of Ajuran

Who is the Barbar sultan ibn battuta talked about? It's a clear indication that non-arabs played a significant role in Xamar way before the Muzzaffars.