What is the exact point Somalia took a turn for the worse?

[Nightline Kid]

Somalia is a mostly homogeneous country both in terms of religion and ethnicity. It's been said multiple times but it's shameful to think that there are other African countries populated with people of numerous beliefs and ethnicities that don't have the level of infighting that has plagued Somalia for the past few decades. Not to say that qabiil is the sole root cause of all our problems, but it has certainly exacerbated many of them.

 

[Hoosjeed]

The point of no return was when Afweyne executed the sheikhs and ulema for rightfully opposing him when tried to pass that blatantly blasphemous family law in 1975. It was symbolic, but I believe that at that point he became the enemy of all God Fearing Somalis.

 

[Genie]

All i need is money and a few trustee 'advisors' aka backup dancers and i can easily fix somali , starting up north then makin my way down to the south.
if only i can find a way to intercept the so called 'aid' money flowing into somalia every year

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

The point of no return was sometime in Feb-June of 91.

The mass killing of Darod civilians fleeing Mogadishu along the Merka Kismayo road by the USC made political compromise impossible for almost a decade. A decade in which Somali deteriorated much further. It basically marked the start of clan war where it previously was just clan militia against a state composed of all clans. The Hawiye could have easily installed a president and not attempted to ethnically cleanse the Darod, but they could not resist the opportunity. The cleansing of the Darod out of Mogadishu and the Shabelle valley was understandable though, and the nation-state could have been rescued even then. The straw that broke the camel's back was the Hawiye attempt at cleansing the Darod out of the Juba valley, this basically destroyed any feeling of mutual belonging.

Somalia will never again have a centralized army, meaning that Mogadishu will never again have a monopoly of force over the entire country. And a country whose army cannot move freely within its own territory is no country.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

The downfall was due to power hungry opportunistic men who were willing to do whatever it takes to get power, even if it meant the destruction of the entire country. These included Siyaad Barre, Morgan, Caydiid, Cali Mahdi, Cabdullaahi Yusuf, Cabdiraxmaan Tuur and Siilaanyo. Since the civil war these types of men, actually men much worse than them, have multiplied and can be found throughout Somalia. They've gotten fat off the politics of discord, hate and division.

Unless and until Somalis wisen up to these types of predatory politicians they'll continue to be used as cannon fodder.

 

[fox]

Somalia is a mostly homogeneous country both in terms of religion and ethnicity. It's been said multiple times but it's shameful to think that there are other African countries populated with people of numerous beliefs and ethnicities that don't have the level of infighting that has plagued Somalia for the past few decades. Not to say that qabiil is the sole root cause of all our problems, but it has certainly exacerbated many of them.

@Grant

 

[XamarCade]

The point of no return was sometime in Feb-June of 91.

The mass killing of Darod civilians fleeing Mogadishu along the Merka Kismayo road by the USC made political compromise impossible for almost a decade. A decade in which Somali deteriorated much further. It basically marked the start of clan war where it previously was just clan militia against a state composed of all clans. The Hawiye could have easily installed a president and not attempted to ethnically cleanse the Darod, but they could not resist the opportunity. The cleansing of the Darod out of Mogadishu and the Shabelle valley was understandable though, and the nation-state could have been rescued even then. The straw that broke the camel's back was the Hawiye attempt at cleansing the Darod out of the Juba valley, this basically destroyed any feeling of mutual belonging.

Somalia will never again have a centralized army, meaning that Mogadishu will never again have a monopoly of force over the entire country. And a country whose army cannot move freely within its own territory is no country.

Shifting all blame on Hawiye when will u ever get tired

 

[Von]

Going to war with Ethiopia. We should have played the long game, through economic and political strength.

 

[-Gantaal-]

The downfall was due to power hungry opportunistic men who were willing to do whatever it takes to get power, even if it meant the destruction of the entire country. These included Siyaad Barre, Morgan, Caydiid, Cali Mahdi, Cabdullaahi Yusuf, Cabdiraxmaan Tuur and Siilaanyo. Since the civil war these types of men, actually men much worse than them, have multiplied and can be found throughout Somalia. They've gotten fat off the politics of discord, hate and division.

Unless and until Somalis wisen up to these types of predatory politicians they'll continue to be used as cannon fodder.

With a suffocating environment of all sorts of secessionist and morally putrid deniers of the one and only truth; One people, One nation. I'm happy that people like you exist.


Great Integrity.

 

[Abdalla]

No many things before and after starting with the Ethiopian war or even the Kacaan. After Siad Barre was ousted many atrocities occurred through Somalia that I am not 100% educated in that's why I've said time and again that this is a discussion not an attack at anyone. USC fighting isn't the only reason why we are here although that didn't help the situation

You asked a question and answered it by yourself. You seemed very stern in how you took a stance. I found it insensitive to take that episode as a point of no return. I've seen many clannists taking your stance, that's why I grouped you with them. I guess we all have our own realities. USC infightings could've been the reason why YOU are here, but many people were already living nearly two years in refugee camps or abroad.

 

[jugjugwacwac]

With a suffocating environment of all sorts of secessionist and morally putrid deniers of the one and only truth; One people, One nation. I'm happy that people like you exist.


Great Integrity.

Exactly, you got it. And thanks for the kind words sxb.

 

[YoungFarah]

You asked a question and answered it by yourself. You seemed very stern in how you took a stance. I found it insensitive to take that episode as a point of no return. I've seen many clannists taking your stance, that's why I grouped you with them. I guess we all have our own realities. USC infightings could've been the reason why YOU are here, but many people were already living nearly two years in refugee camps or abroad.

TBH my parents left the country in the 80s so they never went through much other than getting their families outta there. I understand how you thought that I said that the USC collapsing as a key point in Somalia's downturn and seeing it as me disregarding previous events when I don't know much so yh

 

[waraabe]

Literally from the inception of the unified Somali nation (1960):

View attachment 22170

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Can't blame them tho kkkk when you have low IQ 'leaders' negotiating on behalf of you, if the UK negotiates a terrible deal with the EU today it's the fault of the UK not the EU


Good thing to happen to the dirty waqooyi of old and new

 

[waraabe]

1960


The so called union should've never happened

 

[Grant]

@Grant
View attachment 22190

http://reliefweb.int/report/somalia/study-minorities-somalia

"Although the population of minority groups living in Somalia has not as yet been established, estimates indicate that they constitute one third of the total Somalia population; approximately 2,000,000 people. The minority groups include Bantu, Bravenese, Rerhamar, Bajuni, Eyle, Galgala, Tumal, Yibir and Gaboye. These groups continue to live in conditions of great poverty and suffer numerous forms of discrimination and exclusion."

IMO, refusing to recognize the lack of homogeneity is one of the stumbling blocks to getting the country back on it's feet. Even the so-called homogeneous groups have insufficient in common to cooperate with each other. Every group excludes and competes with all others. Any workable political solution has to recognize this.

 

[Nightline Kid]

http://reliefweb.int/report/somalia/study-minorities-somalia

"Although the population of minority groups living in Somalia has not as yet been established, estimates indicate that they constitute one third of the total Somalia population; approximately 2,000,000 people. The minority groups include Bantu, Bravenese, Rerhamar, Bajuni, Eyle, Galgala, Tumal, Yibir and Gaboye. These groups continue to live in conditions of great poverty and suffer numerous forms of discrimination and exclusion."

IMO, refusing to recognize the lack of homogeneity is one of the stumbling blocks to getting the country back on it's feet. Even the so-called homogeneous groups have insufficient in common to cooperate with each other. Every group excludes and competes with all others. Any workable political solution has to recognize this.

One third? I thought it was much smaller than that

 

[Grant]

One third? I thought it was much smaller than that

Read it and weep:

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/eoir/legacy/2013/11/08/No_Redress.pdf

 

[Prince of Lasanod]

I think Somalis killed one of Grant's family members, and so he is dedicated his entire life trying to discredit us.

There is no other reason why someone why an old white man would dedicate his life studying pastoral tribes in a semi desert country.

Maybe he's that Cuban guy who is obsessed with the Ogaden war? I remember reading his posts on Somnet and he was a big time Zionist who supports ethnically cleansing Palestinians.

One third? I thought it was much smaller than that

I doubt they constitute even half of that.

 

[Grant]

I think Somalis killed one of Grant's family members, and so he is dedicated his entire life trying to discredit us.

There is no other reason why someone why an old white man would dedicate his life studying pastoral tribes in a semi desert country.

Maybe he's that Cuban guy who is obsessed with the Ogaden war? I remember reading his posts on Somnet and he was a big time Zionist who supports ethnically cleansing Palestinians.


I doubt they constitute even half of that.

Of course you doubt it. The nasab Samaales created the shegato, but told themselves that they were everybody. Even an actual census might not reveal the truth. I understand the Galgala are now counted as MJ's. The Eyle, Gobuweyn and others are counted as Reewin. Of course we don't know, but the 1/3 could actually be an under count.