Xalimo Believes Illegitimate Children Should Be Accepted By Somalis

[KinsiHilaac]

How do you deal with the fact that your entire system of belief is contingent upon arbitrarilly drawn moral axiomatic principles, that change with each passing decade?

whats the belief system you are talking about?

 

[Dualke]

whats the belief system you are talking about?

All anti-moral realist ideologies (i.e athiesm)
If you're agnostic and believe in objective truth you'll have to elaborate on that

 

[KinsiHilaac]

I do not think they are uneducated per se, as most, including I, struggle with the swift shift in our community, through so many layers, so quickly, and more so amongst female species - wishing is wherein lies the hold.

This reminds of B. Spinoza being ostracised for denouncing Tawra whilst washing laundry for the genteel class in the slums of Amsterdam.

So, you would not mind having a child without a father, or with a man you are not married to. What would your family make of that? Assuming yours is traditional Somali family.

Trust me, it´s uneducation, I see myself in them because I was literally text book them, It is the belief of " Allah ordained us to act this way and anything else can possibly never be right" even if it looks appealing they´d still be guilt tripped by Jahannam

but as they go on and see different types of somalis they finally understand that.. it wasn´t as bad as they made it out to be, there is a life outside the realm of islam, and that´s whats hard for them to grasp.

 

[Riya.]

Dawg atleast she's having children. Better than being childless like a lot of Diaspora Somali women will be.

Nothing wrong with not wanting to be a mother. Don’t shame us for having choices and choosing to take control of our bodies, how dare you…

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Trust me, it´s uneducation, I see myself in them because I was literally text book them, It is the belief of " Allah ordained us to act this way and anything else can possibly never be right" even if it looks appealing they´d still be guilt tripped by Jahannam

but as they go on and see different types of somalis they finally understand that.. it wasn´t as bad as they made it out to be, there is a life outside the realm of islam, and that´s whats hard for them to grasp.

Yet, the more educated I get, the greater my knowledge (I think I belong to the top 3% [let us call it 'faan' ] ), the less I know for certain, the more conservative Muslim I become; how do you explain that?

I am squatting at the opposite end of where you are, I think, no?

 

[KinsiHilaac]

All anti-moral realist ideologies (i.e athiesm)
If you're agnostic and believe in objective truth you'll have to elaborate on that

well I am not someone who believes in subjective morality i think there might be a universal basis for human judgements
For example, most people would agree that murder, rape, and theft are morally wrong. This shows that there is an objective basis for morality, which is rooted in human nature, our needs and our well-being as a society

 

[JigjigaKismaayo]

how come no one tagged @Angelina ?

 

[JigjigaKismaayo]

Anyways, bastard children are born all the time, even to conservative households in conservative societies. WHat's more shocking is all the ones liking this?
Absolutely embarrassed for them more than the girl!

 

[KinsiHilaac]

Yet, the more educated I get, the greater my knowledge (I think I belong to the top 3% [let us call it 'faan' ] ), the less I know for certain, the more conservative Muslim I become; how do you explain that?

I am squatting at the opposite end of where you are, I think, no?

Are you saying you become more conservative the more you learn?

 

[Dualke]

well I am not someone who believes in subjective morality i think there might be a universal basis for human judgements
For example, most people would agree that murder, rape, and theft are morally wrong. This shows that there is an objective basis for morality, which is rooted in human nature, our needs and our well-being as a society

So your moral system is defined insomuch that is leads to the well-being of society?

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Are you saying you become more conservative the more you learn?

Very much so, in my thinking, and I was very liberal in my undergraduate. And now, I am almost on par with 'you name it', the most conservative.

I concluded many moons ago, liberalism is akin to mental illness - this is a negative hypothesis, and I shall have to prove it, or not.

 

[Johnathan Smith]

Nothing wrong with not having children. Don’t shame us for having choices and choosing to take control of our bodies, how dare you…

I beg to differ. Rather quite the opposite. What you believe to be your choice, is in all likelihood societal conditioning emphasising a culture of ‘rebellion’ from a young age. It is in a human beings intrinsic nature to reproduce. So when people nowadays spout the erroneous rhetoric that’s it’s somehow their ‘choice’ is illogical. From mainstream seemingly harmless childhood movies like Aladdin to history and English lessons in school, government institutions place a big importance in pushing this agenda that everything anti-tradition is good. Trust me there a big players in industry that fund and benefit from this. It takes serious self reflection to see through the agenda. The proof you are most likely indoctrinated is how ‘offended’ you are, without reason. At the end of the day your happiness and fulfilment is on the line and no one will aid you in old age apart from your offspring.

 

[Angelina]

Anyways, bastard children are born all the time, even to conservative households in conservative societies. WHat's more shocking is all the ones liking this?
Absolutely embarrassed for them more than the girl!

I think most people know what my opinions are. Trying to normalize Zina is frankly disgusting. We’re Muslim and we should do well to remember that.

The end. I don’t see what there is to discuss. This isn’t a topic which has many greys.
It’s black and white. Hence why i didn’t feel the need to comment.

 

[KinsiHilaac]

Very much so, in my thinking, and I was very liberal in my undergraduate.

I think they don´t correlate, your thinking capabilities and your religious convinctions. What do you think,

because I really believe you can be muslim and still incredibly clever, just probably not when it comes to filtering out brainwash from what´s real, but then again most religions are inherited and at times followed blindly or to find purpose or solace, there are many reasons as to why you would pursue faith more

 

[KinsiHilaac]

So your moral system is defined insomuch that is leads to the well-being of society?

Yes, aiming for the well being of many while minimizing the suffering would be ideal

 

[JigjigaKismaayo]

I think most people know what my opinions are. Trying to normalize Zina is frankly disgusting. We’re Muslim and we should do well to remember that.

The end. I don’t see what there is to discuss. This isn’t a topic which has many greys.
It’s black and white. Hence why i didn’t feel the need to comment.

What do you think can be done to raise Somalis with dhaqan and diin so we see less and less of things like these? Granted it won't be easy in the west.

we can even turn this into a thread. We always give a lot of attention to degenerates but we never discuss what can be done to prevent to raise religious and cultured people so we never come to this.

 

[AbrahamFreedom]

There's no real difference when it comes to life outcomes or societal shame/stigma between out of wedlock kids or children with divorced parents anyway. It would be dumb for anyone to dehumanize the woman and out of wedlock kids.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

I think they don´t correlate, your thinking capabilities and your religious convinctions. What do you think,

because I really believe you can be muslim and still incredibly clever, just probably not when it comes to filtering out brainwash from what´s real, but then again most religions are inherited and at times followed blindly or to find purpose or solace, there are many reasons as to why you would pursue faith more

Let me explore another strands with you; on a scale of 1 - 10, how proficient , or well versed, would you say, you are, or your knowledge is, in Islam, Islamic studies, jurisprudence, fiqi etc?

 

[Dualke]

Yes, aiming for the well being of many while minimizing the suffering would be ideal

In order to define the well-being of society you would need to have already defined suffering and pleasure as objective moral axioms. However you stated earlier that these axioms are defined by society. This is circular reasoning.

 

[KinsiHilaac]

Let me explore another strands with you; on a scale of 1 - 10, how proficient , or well versed, would you say, you are, or you knowledge is, in Islam, Islamic studies, jurisprudence, fiqi etc?

I´d say 7