Xamar was established by nomads

[Banadiri Warrior]

If you go back home and speak with them, they can speak in Arabic. Even their Khutbah are in Arabic. Several xamaraawi’s have attested this to me already

Say xamari* xamarawi is linguistically incorrect, and yes you're right about us speaking Arabic, the learnt banadiris always spoke Arabic it was only in past 2 generations where number of Arabic speakers decreased. All the writing in Banadiri settlements was in Arabic .

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Yep. Assuming the gibil cad origins to being Arabs is true, it makes no sense as to how this suppoesdly ancient/medieval Arab elite decided to speak their subjects language and adopt their lineages. Whenever Arabs migrate in large numbers into Africa, their language becomes lingua franca of the region and they segregate themselves from the main populace due to obsessing with purity. Even in the Swahili coast where Bantu languages (albeit heavily influenced by Arabic) managed to stay important, the locals still claim descent from random Arabs/Persians whereas Somalis only explictly claim descent from Muhammad's family.

Arabs migrated to the horn in multiple smaller waves throughout centuries, there were also multiple Persian migrations. In swahili coast the ones there's Arab and Persian tribes just like on Bajuni and Banaadiri coast.

 

[Dharbash]

Xamar was established by nomads presumably Somali nomads according to Banadiri sources

See: bughyat Al amal fi tarikh Al sumal

@bana

Xamar was established by Arabs/benadiris, hence why they also ruled it
This is one of the rulers of Xamar during the 1900’s

 

[Zak12]

Xamar was established by Arabs/benadiris, hence why they also ruled it
This is one of the rulers of Xamar during the 1900’s
View attachment 307710

He was a governor installed by the Omanis lol. Mogadishu was previously ruled by the Hiraab aka Abgaal

 

[Zak12]

Anyways, Mogadishu was a shithole by the late 19th century. There's a reason why Somali sultans leased the city to the Italians because it fell far behind the rest of the coastal cities in that time. If Arabs/Benadiris want to claim it during its low point then go ahead lol. The great urban centers of the Benadir coast of that time were Hobyo and Afgooye. Maybe more that I'm missing

 

[Dharbash]

He was a governor installed by the Omanis lol.

Sure, then why would the Italians buy the port city from the zanzibari sultan? I was confused but read up on Omans influence on Mogadishu and it makes a lot of sense now

 

[Zak12]

Sure, then why would the Italians buy the port city from the zanzibari sultan? I was confused but read up on Omans influence on Mogadishu and it makes a lot of sense now

Italy was looking into expanding its influence in the Horn, especially after it acquired Eritrea. Somalia's location near the gulf of Aden and Indian Ocean would also help them curb the UK's influence.

 

[attash]

Xamar was established by Arabs/benadiris, hence why they also ruled it
This is one of the rulers of Xamar during the 1900’s
View attachment 307710

Omani governance was nominal. The real power was in the hands of local authorities, whom the Omanis had to get permission from for their activities in the region.

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These are the indigenous authorities whom we read about in this Italian census:

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Omani governance was nominal. The real power was in the hands of local authorities, whom the Omanis had to get permission from for their activities in the region.

Forget about nominal, the British and Italians when they came into the region wrote that Omanis only claimed Mogadishu and the coast yet didn’t have any influence or power in it.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

I finally found the time to read through the sources and calculate the numbers.

Let’s pick up where we dropped off at Saddex Geedi. Just by looking at the picture you showed, I see that you left out four clans who are all gibil madow:

- Waceysle Abgaal
- Silcis
- Wacdaan
- Baadicadde

Furthermore, the Indhoweyne is vast majority gibil madow as they trace their origins to Wacdaan Mudulood.

1- Aadandheere ( Gibil Cad)
2- Indhoweyne (Wacdaan)
3- Ba Sadiq (Gibil Cad)
4- Alaa-uddin ( Gibil Cad)
5 - Reer Cabdalla ( garjante)
6- Cawaale ( hawiye caye)
7- Wacdaan (unspecified subs)
8- Silcis
9- Waceysle
10- Baadicadde
11- Reer Sheikh

Making 4 gibil cad clans and 7 gibil madow clans. We’ll say this is 3/4 gibil madow, since some of the gibil madow clans are quite large.

View attachment 307678

Nope I didn't leave them out, you misunderstood the source . Waceysle, Wacdaan, Baadicade and Silcis didn't all live in shingaani as standalone clans so it makes no sense to name them. Cawaale are from Cayr, Reer Nuur Mukalow are from Waceysle which is a family not a clan, In 1910s the leader of Gibil Madows of shingaani was Ali Nuur Mukalow his direct son ↓ .

Abdulle from garjante .

Indhoweyne is an alliance, not a clan as I've explained multiple times before it's made up of 3 groups,
1- Cali Musa (Gibil Cad)
2- Rooblow
3- Muusa Xaaji
Last two being gibil madow one being wacdaan and other being another hawiye, so wacdaan in that text refers to Reer Rooblow , I haven't heard of any silcis or baadicade reers in shingaani

I won't dispute your figures for Yacquub, Bandhawoow & Guudmane, and Iskaashato

As for Dhabarweyne & Shaanshi, Shaanshi's numbers are already split between this confederation and Yacquub. It would be more fair to say they make up a third.

You don't decide that , Shaanshi inhabit two neighbourhoods on their own whilst the rest of Dhabarweyne excluding Qalmashube only one . In Shingaani it's specifically Reer Faqih Cali of Shaanshi , it's not a split rather only a specific lineage of Shaanshi living in Shingaani

Reer Maanyo is a similar case, where Ba Mukhtar's numbers are split between this confederation and Iskaashato. Let's say this confederation is 50/50.

Ba Mukhtaar are the biggest clan out of all Reer Maanyo , the Reer Maanyo of xamarweyne are much less than those of Shingaani and they're mostly Ba Mukhtaars , I don't know where you got ba mukhtars number being split between Xamarweyne and Shingaani, so I still stand corrected Gibil Cads make up 2/3 As Ba Mukhtar were the biggest in shingaani, followed by Reer Cumar then Shaawush .

Of course, Amoudi, Ashraaf, and Rer Faqi are all completely gibil cad.

Murusade is of course completely gibil madow. As for Jasiira, they are Sheekhaal, which is a gibil madow clan in a literal sense. However, they have heavy Arab admixture though, so it is difficult to classify what they are. They didn't even live in the city at the time though, according to the Italian census, so I won't include them.

Sheekhaal Jaziira are an Arab gibil cad clan descendants of Shaykh Ba Hassan Az-Zubayri , jaziira in the census was for sheekhaal jaziira that lived in jaziira. Those Murusade didn't live inside xamarweyne and shingaani, the same book of the census mentioned them living in the outskirts so they're not included.

View attachment 307679


Yacquub: 1/3 mad (193), 2/3 cad (387)

Ashraaf: cad (600)

Amoudi: cad (670)

Reer Sheikh & Saddex Geedi: 3/4 mad (488), 1/4 cad (162)

Reer Maanyo: 1/2 mad (277), 1/2 cad (277)

Reer Faqi: 1/1 cad (340)

Dhabarweyne & Shaanshi: 2/3 mad(758), 1/3 cad (379)

Moorshe: 4/5 mad (548), 1/5 cad (137)

Iskaashato: 1/3 mad (368), 2/3 cad (552)

Murusade: mad (730)

Bandhawoow & Guudmane: 2/3 mad (834), 1/3 cad (416)


Thus the local inhabitants are (using your methods and sources):

Gibil Madow: 4,132 (51%)
Gibil Cad: 3,982 (49%)

A close majority, but still a majority.

Correction**
1-Reer Maanyo (555) 2/3 Cad (370)& 1/3 Madow (185)
2- Reer Shaykh + Seddex Geedi (650) 1/2 Cad (325) & 1/2 Madow.(325)
3- Ashraaf (600)
4- Camuudi (670)
5- Yacquub + Bafadhal (580) 2/3 Cad (387) & 1/3 Madow (193)
6-Dhabarweyne+ Shaanshi (1137) 1/2 Cad (569) &1/2 Madow (568)
7-Moorsho (685)1/4 Cad(171) 3/4 Madow (514)
8- Bandhawow +Gudmane (1250) 1/3 Cad (417) & 2/3 Madow (833)
9- Iskaashato (920) 2/3 Cad (613) , 1/3 Madow (307)
10- Reer Faqi (340)
Total being 7387
Total Gibil Cad = 4462
Total Gibil Madow = 2925
Therefore Gibil Cad being approximately 60% and Gibil Madow approximately 40%
Now there shouldn't be anymore confusion as I've clarified everything. You won't learn reer xamar confederacy clan structures overnight or online so whatever sources you attempt to use will all hint to what I've said.

 

[AboveHeigtś]

This is true. All majority gibil cad confederations have Somali names or originated from Somali clans. "Reer Maanyo" is a Somali name. Iskaashato and Yacquub have origins in Somali clans (Moorshe & Abgaal, respectively). And of course gibil cads among the reer xamar speak Somali dialects.

@Banadiri Warrior claims Xamar was historically dominated and ruled by gibil cads. Why would the people running the place speak the language of their subjects, name their own families using their subjects' language, and even join their subjects' clans? Make it make sense.

All the trade routes(the city's lifeline) linking Xamar into the interior was controlled by Somalis as far back as we have texts relating to Xamar. Major reason why the immigrant merchant families and trading Somali clans of Xamar always swore fielty to the rulers of the interior. Whether the Ajuuraan, the Abgaal or the Wacdaan/Geledi alliance.

The city was and still is the melting pot of Somali culture and the various seafaring communities on the Indian ocean(Arabs/Iranians/South Asians).

 

[AboveHeigtś]

Nope I didn't leave them out, you misunderstood the source . Waceysle, Wacdaan, Baadicade and Silcis didn't all live in shingaani as standalone clans so it makes no sense to name them. Cawaale are from Cayr, Reer Nuur Mukalow are from Waceysle which is a family not a clan, In 1910s the leader of Gibil Madows of shingaani was Ali Nuur Mukalow his direct son ↓ View attachment 307721.

Abdulle from garjante .

Indhoweyne is an alliance, not a clan as I've explained multiple times before it's made up of 3 groups,
1- Cali Musa (Gibil Cad)
2- Rooblow
3- Muusa Xaaji
Last two being gibil madow one being wacdaan and other being another hawiye, so wacdaan in that text refers to Reer Rooblow , I haven't heard of any silcis or baadicade reers in shingaani

You don't decide that , Shaanshi inhabit two neighbourhoods on their own whilst the rest of Dhabarweyne excluding Qalmashube only one . In Shingaani it's specifically Reer Faqih Cali of Shaanshi , it's not a split rather only a specific lineage of Shaanshi living in Shingaani

Ba Mukhtaar are the biggest clan out of all Reer Maanyo , the Reer Maanyo of xamarweyne are much less than those of Shingaani and they're mostly Ba Mukhtaars , I don't know where you got ba mukhtars number being split between Xamarweyne and Shingaani, so I still stand corrected Gibil Cads make up 2/3 As Ba Mukhtar were the biggest in shingaani, followed by Reer Cumar then Shaawush .

Sheekhaal Jaziira are an Arab gibil cad clan descendants of Shaykh Ba Hassan Az-Zubayri , jaziira in the census was for sheekhaal jaziira that lived in jaziira. Those Murusade didn't live inside xamarweyne and shingaani, the same book of the census mentioned them living in the outskirts so they're not included.

Correction**
1-Reer Maanyo (555) 2/3 Cad (370)& 1/3 Madow (185)
2- Reer Shaykh + Seddex Geedi (650) 1/2 Cad (325) & 1/2 Madow.(325)
3- Ashraaf (600)
4- Camuudi (670)
5- Yacquub + Bafadhal (580) 2/3 Cad (387) & 1/3 Madow (193)
6-Dhabarweyne+ Shaanshi (1137) 1/2 Cad (569) &1/2 Madow (568)
7-Moorsho (685)1/4 Cad(171) 3/4 Madow (514)
8- Bandhawow +Gudmane (1250) 1/3 Cad (417) & 2/3 Madow (833)
9- Iskaashato (920) 2/3 Cad (613) , 1/3 Madow (307)
10- Reer Faqi (340)
Total being 7387
Total Gibil Cad = 4462
Total Gibil Madow = 2925
Therefore Gibil Cad being approximately 60% and Gibil Madow approximately 40%
Now there shouldn't be anymore confusion as I've clarified everything. You won't learn reer xamar confederacy clan structures overnight or online so whatever sources you attempt to use will all hint to what I've said.

Were are you conjuring the breakdown of Yacqub e Ba'fadal? What is your source?

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Were are you conjuring the breakdown of Yacqub e Ba'fadal? What is your source?

Bughyatul Aamaal, Shariif Caydaruus lists the groups that make up the Yacquub alliance

 

[Garaad diinle]

Have you guys ever heard of reer xamar samaale that are said to live on the coast of southern somalia? Perhaps they're the key to the origin of the name reer xamar.

 

[Chaseyourdreamzz]

We got some real educated people in here defending our history 🫡

 

[Garaad diinle]

Have you guys ever heard of reer xamar samaale that are said to live on the coast of southern somalia? Perhaps they're the key to the origin of the name reer xamar.

I'm not talking about the various somali clans residing in xamar weyne and shingaani many of them trace their lineage to samaale but rather what i meant to say is xamar ina samaale. They're a direct decedents of samaale and live on the coast of southern somalia.

As for the date of arrival of the other somali clans to xamar i've yet to come across any reputable source or tradition that state or specify a certain time period. Of course that's aside from the imam yacquub sultan of mogadishu and son of sheikh ciqwaaq who've arrived to mogadishu around 400 years ago and resided in shingaani where he was also the leader of a confederacy of the same name. Judging from the oral tradition of saddex geedi confederacy who also live in shingaani it appears that they've come even earlier than the yacquubi sultanate.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

I'm not talking about the various somali clans residing in xamar weyne and shingaani many of them trace their lineage to samaale but rather what i meant to say is xamar ina samaale. They're a direct decedents of samaale and live on the coast of southern somalia.

As for the date of arrival of the other somali clans to xamar i've yet to come across any reputable source or tradition that state or specify a certain time period. Of course that's aside from the imam yacquub sultan of mogadishu and son of sheikh ciqwaaq who've arrived to mogadishu around 400 years ago and resided in shingaani where he was also the leader of a confederacy of the same name. Judging from the oral tradition of saddex geedi confederacy who also live in shingaani it appears that they've come even earlier than the yacquubi sultanate.

What's evidence for existence of xamarre samaale, the date of arrival of Reer samaale's to xamar is known through abtirsi as they mostly dentify by their progenitor that came to xamar, there are some cases where they identify by their sub clan like reer Axmed nuur of sheekhaal reer aw xassan or Qurawaye of Baadicade.

Abgaal yacquubis in xamar are reer cali Imaam, also seddex geedi mostly moved out of shingaani now they live in boondheere mostly and elsewhere

 

[Garaad diinle]

What's evidence for existence of xamarre samaale

We know about them thanks to the preserved genealogical tree by somali elders that also state that these xamar samaale use to live on the coast.

the date of arrival of Reer samaale's to xamar is known through abtirsi as they mostly dentify by their progenitor that came to xamar, there are some cases where they identify by their sub clan like reer Axmed nuur of sheekhaal reer aw xassan or Qurawaye of Baadicade.

I don't have access to their abtirsi so i can't tell personally. Do you have recourses we can look at? Also can you tell us for example about cabdulle garjante of saddex geedi? Who was he, how many do his decedents count until they reach him and when did he arrive to mogadishu?

also seddex geedi mostly moved out of shingaani now they live in boondheere mostly and elsewhere

It's also said that some of them live in afgoye alongside some geledi.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

We know about them thanks to the preserved genealogical tree by somali elders that also state that these xamar samaale use to live on the coast.

That's not valid evidence if there's nobody that claims to descend from them, besides samaale's originated in modern day eastern Ethiopia. So why would that son specifically be on the other side of the horn.

I don't have access to their abtirsi so i can't tell personally. Do you have recourses we can look at?

Resources for their abtirsi? Nah , you'd have to speak with them directly to know it

Also can you tell us for example about cabdulle garjante of saddex geedi? Who was he, how many do his decedents count until they reach him and when did he arrive to mogadishu?

I wouldn't know, all I know is that in 1930s they were around 30-40, doubt they were in xamar for longer than 8 generations

It's also said that some of them live in afgoye alongside some geledi.

Haven't heard of that, would most likely the ones that were engaged in trade like Reer Aadandheere who were also in buuloburte and jalalaqsi

 

[Step a side]

Nope I didn't leave them out, you misunderstood the source . Waceysle, Wacdaan, Baadicade and Silcis didn't all live in shingaani as standalone clans so it makes no sense to name them. Cawaale are from Cayr, Reer Nuur Mukalow are from Waceysle which is a family not a clan, In 1910s the leader of Gibil Madows of shingaani was Ali Nuur Mukalow his direct son ↓ View attachment 307721.

Abdulle from garjante .

Indhoweyne is an alliance, not a clan as I've explained multiple times before it's made up of 3 groups,
1- Cali Musa (Gibil Cad)
2- Rooblow
3- Muusa Xaaji
Last two being gibil madow one being wacdaan and other being another hawiye, so wacdaan in that text refers to Reer Rooblow , I haven't heard of any silcis or baadicade reers in shingaani

You don't decide that , Shaanshi inhabit two neighbourhoods on their own whilst the rest of Dhabarweyne excluding Qalmashube only one . In Shingaani it's specifically Reer Faqih Cali of Shaanshi , it's not a split rather only a specific lineage of Shaanshi living in Shingaani

Ba Mukhtaar are the biggest clan out of all Reer Maanyo , the Reer Maanyo of xamarweyne are much less than those of Shingaani and they're mostly Ba Mukhtaars , I don't know where you got ba mukhtars number being split between Xamarweyne and Shingaani, so I still stand corrected Gibil Cads make up 2/3 As Ba Mukhtar were the biggest in shingaani, followed by Reer Cumar then Shaawush .

Sheekhaal Jaziira are an Arab gibil cad clan descendants of Shaykh Ba Hassan Az-Zubayri , jaziira in the census was for sheekhaal jaziira that lived in jaziira. Those Murusade didn't live inside xamarweyne and shingaani, the same book of the census mentioned them living in the outskirts so they're not included.

Correction**
1-Reer Maanyo (555) 2/3 Cad (370)& 1/3 Madow (185)
2- Reer Shaykh + Seddex Geedi (650) 1/2 Cad (325) & 1/2 Madow.(325)
3- Ashraaf (600)
4- Camuudi (670)
5- Yacquub + Bafadhal (580) 2/3 Cad (387) & 1/3 Madow (193)
6-Dhabarweyne+ Shaanshi (1137) 1/2 Cad (569) &1/2 Madow (568)
7-Moorsho (685)1/4 Cad(171) 3/4 Madow (514)
8- Bandhawow +Gudmane (1250) 1/3 Cad (417) & 2/3 Madow (833)
9- Iskaashato (920) 2/3 Cad (613) , 1/3 Madow (307)
10- Reer Faqi (340)
Total being 7387
Total Gibil Cad = 4462
Total Gibil Madow = 2925
Therefore Gibil Cad being approximately 60% and Gibil Madow approximately 40%
Now there shouldn't be anymore confusion as I've clarified everything. You won't learn reer xamar confederacy clan structures overnight or online so whatever sources you attempt to use will all hint to what I've said.

Stop lying. Sections of Murusade lived in Shangaani as natives. Waaberi next door is literally an old Murusade goof. Our ancestors were named “Garfuul” and they used to work in the courts of Ajuuraan, that's why Murusade was an early inhabitant in Xamar and the South. Know this, mahmaha jirtay gar qaadka gareen ajurana leh, gar naqsi garfuul karanla leh! The once from Xamar Daye you are on are different from the once in Afgooye who are different from the once on the coast who are different from the ones in Ceelbuur, Baraawe etc.