Banu Hashim Banu Marodheere Carbeed.It's like banu hashim origins all over again kkkkkkk
I kid you not this version I heard goes like that.
Atheists come in
- Thread starter Lord Flacko
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I kid you not this version I heard goes like that.
The_Cosmos
Pepe Trump
I've always argued to move forward not back. If anything, I call for understanding our past rather than embracing it. You learn from the past, you don't embrace it.
As for you other points, you're diverting from the original point you were making. We were making the argument that the ethnic identity has predated Islam which you disagreed with, now it seems you diverting to cultural influence. Islam influences Somali culture no doubt but we existed before it and to claim that one must be Muslim to be Somali is false. I was making the point that Pakistanis and Arabs don't merge religious identity with ethnic identity.
The_Cosmos
Pepe Trump
That's like telling modern day Italians to ignore Roman history
The Somali language is 3000 years old.
This is the exact point I was going to make. It's also like telling Turks to ignore the Ottoman history because they weren't called "Turks".
Lord Flacko
VIP
How? Im talking about the formation of the Somali identity and modern culture. The ancient Romans weren't Italians. Somali (the name itself) wasn't mentioned until after Islam, Hawiya was mentioned in the 11th century as the first mention of any Somali people. Our most known history is after Islam when we had several Sultanates, Kingdoms and waged military conquests throughout the Horn of Africa. Anything before Islam isn't Somali as Somali and Somalis didn't exist then. They were Proto-Somalis of whom we know almost nothing about, our the Puntities who came before them, of whom we know almost nothing of.That's like telling modern day Italians to ignore Roman history
The Somali language is 3000 years old.
The Vikings weren't Norwegians, but proto-Norwegians who spoke another language and weren't Christian. Short version of the question is, who were our "Vikings"? The Puntites? After that then, because that was thousands of years ago
The Somali language has transformed throughout history. It most likely only became somewhat centralised after Islam and the rise of Sultanates and Kingdoms
Lord Flacko
VIP
Ottomans were Muslim Turks.This is the exact point I was going to make. It's also like telling Turks to ignore the Ottoman history because they weren't called "Turks".
Im talking about who the proto-Somalis before Islam were. Do you know? There is little documentation of them. Our upcoming and rise was after Islam and the creation of the Somali identity aswell as modern culture
No one here is saying we ignore our history or claim banu hashim or non Muslims aren't Somali or whatever you got from this thread
I'm saying our ancestors were so different from us culturally that we wouldn't consider them to be Somali today and that's because of Islam completely shaping our modern identity and culture.
Miscommunication is a
I'm saying our ancestors were so different from us culturally that we wouldn't consider them to be Somali today and that's because of Islam completely shaping our modern identity and culture.
Miscommunication is a
Lord Flacko
VIP
Thats the point I'm trying to make. Our ancestors before Islam most likely didn't even consider themselves Somali as there was no documentation of "Somali" before Islam. And during that af-somali had many different names like Mogadishan, a name given by ibn Battuta in refernce to a Somali Sultan who ruled of Mogadishu during the 13th century.
Islam shaped the Somali identity and culture.
The_Cosmos
Pepe Trump
No it wasn't! How many times do I need to put up Wikipedia to show that Somali history spans for at least 5,000 years. Just like the Ottomans, not being called Somalis doesn't take away from the fact that they are our ancestors.
Somalis were in contact with Babylon, ancient Egyptians, ancient Greeks, ancient Persians, Indians, Mycenaeans and so on. It's literally right above!
Lord Flacko
VIP
They were not Somalis, but another people who were our ancestors. Or they can be another people that lived on the land we live on today.
The oldest people were Puntites. We were them, hence we wuz kings, but they are not us. Were as in past tense. They did not speak af-Somali or even knew what Somali was. They're in our past but the defining moment when we became Somalis isn't then, its with the advent of Islam in the Horn of Africa.
I'm saying when did we become Somali, but you all keep showing stuff that is not related to that. We were them but they weren't us. They didn't become us untill much later than the time of the Puntites.
When people talk about the Mesopotamians they don't say "the Arabs". 1. because it's wrong 2. because they already have a name, Mesopotamians. We don't know enough about the middle history between the time of Puntites and the time of Somalis. A similar question to the one I'm asking could be, when did Arabs become Arabs? When did they consider themselves Arab?
No one even knows for sure where "Somali" comes from. Most agree it's from Samaale the supposed ancestor of all Somalis but before that name there were numerous ways foreigners referred to the language. "Mogadishan" and Berberawi were one of them.
I chose to mark the existence of Somalis from Samaale as the day Somalis started existing and he matches with the birth of Islam era (500 - 700 AD) that means the Somali people grew up with Islam and were therefore fully shaped by it.
That's why everyone beyond 500 AD was not Somali.
I chose to mark the existence of Somalis from Samaale as the day Somalis started existing and he matches with the birth of Islam era (500 - 700 AD) that means the Somali people grew up with Islam and were therefore fully shaped by it.
That's why everyone beyond 500 AD was not Somali.
Lord Flacko
VIP
Gotta give thatto you lot who make jokes and snarky quips instead of bringing anything intellectual forthwhile to the discussion. Leave my thread if you have no actual smart insight to add.Walle these Muslims are a crafty bunch
I don't agree with the whole premise of your argument actually
Ethnic group is defined as "a community or population made up of people who share a common cultural background or descent."
You were saying...
McLovin
VIP
The father of modern day Turkey was a secular atheist that don't mean he isn't the most revered person in that country today. The reason somalis cling so hard to their religion is because of their failed attempt at creating a strong nation to rally behind so they identify with the next best thing. Muh ummah
It's sad but it's also kinda understandable
It's sad but it's also kinda understandable
Lord Flacko
VIP
I was saying Somalis didn't exist until the advent of Islam. Your arguement doesnt apply, nor is it relevant. I don't really care if you agree with me or not, if you have no historical data to back up your belief of Somalis (Modern Somalis) predating Islam then your belief is not important or one I care for. Convince me if you can.
So are Arabs, Jews, Assyrians, Akkadians, etc. the same ethnic group in modern terms?
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