average benadiri and barawani dna results

[Garaad diinle]

The oldest mosques in the Horn are located in North West and North East Somalia not Xamar. I said Eyl has "similar" architecture to Xamar, even Awdal did before it got bombed. I never mentioned Marka nor Barwa. There are even walls in Harar which were built in the 14th century which are similar and were built by Somalis according to Amhara historical texts. Are you saying Bendaries built those despite them being in Pakistan and Kerala at the time?

The only one speaking out emotions is you. I suggest you do a DNA test, DNA doesn't lie and you are a Somalized immigrant from Pakistan and Kerala who came to Somalia in the 15th/16th centuries. You are not an arab nor persians and arabs never even had any authority in Somalia nor were did they ever control any trade routes. Everything was own and maintained by Somalis.

I don't understand why cadcads and bantus do this wewuz sh*t , it's pathetic, just accept you aren't natives here. It's pathetic. We get you are angry at some people from mudug and galgaduud stealing "your" houses and farms but no need to put all Somalis under that label of expansionist nomadic warrior.

You have your own history but don't try to discredit ethnic Somali history and ethnic Somali people, if you what you say were even remotely true you would have genetic and historical evidence to back up your claims. You wouldn't be speaking Somali.

Here is Zaylac architectures before Italy & England bombed Awdal.

View attachment 265895

Interesting the door design is similar to other door designs in coastal cities through out somalia but also the swahili coast. It must've been a very popular architectural islamic design.

 

[anon2]

Interesting the door design is similar to other door designs in coastal cities through out somalia but also the swahili coast. It must've been a very popular architectural islamic design.

Yeah, you even find it in places like Southern Italy! That geometric pattern differs to many degrees and is/was even used by some non-muslims in East Asia and some parts Europe

 

[Step a side]

The recent archeogenetic analysis on the Swahili coast has kind of proven the Shiraz theory. The Shirazi oral tradition states that they first settled the benaadir coast only for them to venture further south because of coming into disagreement with the local inhabitants at the time. The Arab-Persians wanted more control and leverage over the region but could not and therefore were forced to leave. They eventually started settling on mass in places like pemba, malindi, Zanzibar, Kilwa etc. I am sure if the benaadir coast was as submissive as the people further south in Kenya, Tanzania and Mozambique the Persian gulf Arabs and Persians would have dominated it in a similar way

 

[Step a side]

No doubt the immigrant people from Benaadir are made up of the same people that settled further south in Kilwa, Pemba, Malindi etc.

Chronologically speaking it would have been Cushitic and other hunter gatherer tribes living on the coast 1st. It would be these groups that the Greco Romans would have encountered.

Some time after Bantu expansion reached the coast Kenya and Tanzania, Mozambique etc

As for the sea fearing immigrants it would have been the Sabeans, Himyarites pre Islamic times. Followed by Persian Gulf inhabitants (Both Arabs and Persians) during the early years of Islam. Followed by Indians like Gujuratis and other groups.

Of course we can’t forget the Malagasy who were the greatest seafaring communities on earth and who are believed to have influenced the Indians and other communities with their engineering expertise when it comes to building boats. I remember reading they introduced stuff like chicken and the palm tree to Africa, India , Arabia etc early on in history.

 

[anon2]

My previous post wasn't meant as harmful or condescending btw, Bendarirs and other such as bantus, banjuus, somali arabs etc are our Somali brothers and have contributed to Somali society and influenced it greatly. I just hate when people discredit ethnic Somali peoples achievements.

I apologize to @Banadiri Warrior just incase he thinks my previous post is hateful.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

I know Himyar had control over Azania but was Sarapion part of Azania is what we need to ask ourselves. There is clear evidence of Himyar control over Rhapta but I’m yet to see Himyar control in Sarapion. If you have any evidence please send it my way.

Is there evidence that sarapion was modern day xamarweyne and shingaani, it could be anywhere along the coast close to that area ,Some archeologists even held the view that xamar jajab preceded xamarweyne and shingaani.

Along the coast till marka there's sites with many ruins that haven't been searched, some were destroyed, abandoned and neglected during the gaal madow wars ,some were abandoned because of sand dunes covering them etc

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

No doubt the immigrant people from Benaadir are made up of the same people that settled further south in Kilwa, Pemba, Malindi etc.

Chronologically speaking it would have been Cushitic and other hunter gatherer tribes living on the coast 1st. It would be these groups that the Greco Romans would have encountered.

Some time after Bantu expansion reached the coast Kenya and Tanzania, Mozambique etc

As for the sea fearing immigrants it would have been the Sabeans, Himyarites pre Islamic times. Followed by Persian Gulf inhabitants (Both Arabs and Persians) during the early years of Islam. Followed by Indians like Gujuratis and other groups.

Of course we can’t forget the Malagasy who were the greatest seafaring communities on earth and who are believed to have influenced the Indians and other communities with their engineering expertise when it comes to building boats. I remember reading they introduced stuff like chicken and the palm tree to Africa, India , Arabia etc early on in history.

Gujaratis mainly came during early 19th century, they first settled along the coast in Xamar,marka, barawa, goobweyn and kismayo in xamar they lived in shaykh muumin xaafad of xamarweyne mostly and some in other neighbourhoods.
There were families in the interior in towns like afgooye and others

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

The oldest mosques in the Horn are located in North West and North East Somalia not Xamar. I said Eyl has "similar" architecture to Xamar, even Awdal did before it got bombed. I never mentioned Marka nor Barwa. There are even walls in Harar which were built in the 14th century which are similar and were built by Somalis according to Amhara historical texts. Are you saying Bendaries built those despite them being in Pakistan and Kerala at the time?

The only one speaking out emotions is you. I suggest you do a DNA test, DNA doesn't lie and you are a Somalized immigrant from Pakistan and Kerala who came to Somalia in the 15th/16th centuries. You are not an arab nor persians and arabs never even had any authority in Somalia nor were did they ever control any trade routes. Everything was own and maintained by Somalis.

I don't understand why cadcads and bantus do this wewuz sh*t , it's pathetic, just accept you aren't natives here. It's pathetic. We get you are angry at some people from mudug and galgaduud stealing "your" houses and farms but no need to put all Somalis under that label of expansionist nomadic warrior.

You have your own history but don't try to discredit ethnic Somali history and ethnic Somali people, if you what you say were even remotely true you would have genetic and historical evidence to back up your claims. You wouldn't be speaking Somali.

Here is Zaylac architectures before Italy & England bombed Awdal.

View attachment 265895

Earliest masjid built in the horn was indeed Masjid Al-Qiblateyn. Saying the oldest masjids in the horn weren't in xamar proves how little you know about history of the south. I've showed you names of Arabs from the engraved writing on their graves and they lived in 2nd hijri century.Clearly they had masjids at the time there but due to the geographical nature of the region towns got buried in sand. Shingaani and Xamar Jajab both had complete towns beneath them.The oldest masjid in modern day east Africa that's still used is Jaamacada Xamarweyne which was built by reer faqis of xamar.

Arabs and persians had authority in their respective areas of east Africa not the whole horn of course, like fakhruddin dynasty, Muzzafar dynasty,Suzan,Hilwani,Shirazi and more.

I never said banadiris built the walls surrounding Harar and walls from 14th century doesn't prove anything.Baardheere also had walls surrounding it.

Banadiris have nothing to do with Pakistan and Kerala , there isn't one banadiri tribe from Pakistan and Kerala .

And I don't understand why ethnic Somalis claim history of others does your own history not satisfy you enough?

And we do have proof in all kinds I've showed you some already yet you're persistent in your arrogant fanatic claims

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Interesting the door design is similar to other door designs in coastal cities through out somalia but also the swahili coast. It must've been a very popular architectural islamic design.

There's one thing in common with the areas that those doors were found in and that is that Arabs lived there. It's obvious doesn't require mental gymnastics to reach an answer.

There's a reason you don't find doors like that in Gaalkacyo , Hargeisa, Beledweyne, Dhuusamareeb etc

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Oh wow here comes the ridicules claims. Is there perhaps musnad writings found in mogadishu?
What did yaqut al-hamawi know about mogadishu other than the word of mouth? Ibn battuta included mogadishu in the berber coast and clearly stated that the rulers was also a berber.

The qadhi was also Egyptian.Ibn battuta also mentioned the traditions of the people of mogadishu and that in terms of greetings it was exactly like people of Yemen, their cuisine was unique from people of the interior it's known that ethnic somalis disliked fish they even looked down on their brother's the Jaajis who fish along the coasts of Galmudug and Puntland

 

[Garaad diinle]

There's one thing in common with the areas that those doors were found in and that is that Arabs lived there. It's obvious doesn't require mental gymnastics to reach an answer.

There's a reason you don't find doors like that in Gaalkacyo , Hargeisa, Beledweyne, Dhuusamareeb etc

Arab this arab that wake up from your arab obsession. Arabs weren't the only one who could build there were persian and indians that were also able to build stone houses heck even somalis were able to build stone houses it didn't require much experience. Fyi There was such doors found in the interior of somalia in the nugaal sool southern awdal and galbeed.

 

[Garaad diinle]

The qadhi was also Egyptian.Ibn battuta also mentioned the traditions of the people of mogadishu and that in terms of greetings it was exactly like people of Yemen, their cuisine was unique from people of the interior it's known that ethnic somalis disliked fish they even looked down on their brother's the Jaajis who fish along the coasts of Galmudug and Puntland

Here we go again with cheery picking so what if the qadhi was egyption, port cities were known to be diverse places. The fact that he was called egyption clearly means that he was born in egypt not mogadishu. What does it matter if the greetings were similar if the people weren't described as yemenis or yemenis in origin? Their language maqdishawi weren't even described as being arabic. In fact when i was little i was told that the local af reer xamar was called maqdishawi. Somalis in port cites are known for eating fish what are you talking about?

 

[JackieBurkhart]

Here we go again with cheery picking so what if the qadhi was egyption, port cities were known to be diverse places. The fact that he was called egyption clearly means that he was born in egypt not mogadishu. What does it matter if the greetings were similar if the people weren't described as yemenis or yemenis in origin? Their language maqdishawi weren't even described as being arabic. In fact when i was little i was told that the local af reer xamar was called maqdishawi. Somalis in port cites are known for eating fish what are you talking about?

Lol, Somalis who live near water are known for eating fish. We have a whole dish called Kaluun iyo Bariis ( Fish and Rice). Clearly has some problems with ethnic Somalis, he can go back to his forefather's homeland then.

 

[Bari🐍]

Ethnic Somalis weren't urban people that resided in stone towns with buildings only with Arab and Persian architecture, Arabs and persians lived alone on the coast in their own settlements.

In barawa region tunnis were agro pastoralists who prefer pastoral life over urban life they lived in the outskirts of the stone town of barawa although later when they were urbanized they settled in areas adjacent to biruuni and mpaayi.

Ajuran first came to xamar after the fall of their empire , 4 out of the 8 moorsho clans in xamarweyne claim ajuran waalamoge ;
1-Reer Maxamud Eebow
2-Reer Baatay
3-Reer Ibrahim
4-Reer khalafow.

Moorsho is a confederacy named after the neighbourhood which all 8 clans/families reside in.

In the stone town of Marka, the first hawiyes to settle there were a group known as juunji they came around 300 years ago, they're blacksmiths from Hiraab.

Mogadishu, Marka and Barawa were all established by Arabs and persians, no proof of ethnic Somalis or remains of them wether it's graves or masjids built by them or neighborhood or even architecture.

So are you saying that southern Somalis displaced the natives of these cities?

 

[JackieBurkhart]

So are you saying that southern Somalis displaced the natives of these cities?

He's delusional, said we built huts only.



They can't cope with the fact they have no history, virtually. Even African Americans have more culture than them, and they've been in Somalia longer.

 

[Shimbiris]

The user is clearly emotionally charged and can't think straight.

Not to mention rather deluded. "Our city" kulaha. What's funny about that is that even in the only Banaadir magalaad where Cadcads had a significant enough population to genuinely rival Gibil-Madows (over 50% by a few percentage points) which was Marko; the ruling tribe and Suldaan were still Gibil-Madow (Bimaal). And they were plainly outnumbered in both Xamar and Baraawe during this period as I have and others have shown on this site time and time again. Even in 1331 the ruler/Sultan Ibn Battuta mentions is "Barbara" (Somali) while only the local Qadi, an Egyptian, was ajanabi let alone Cadcad whilst Ibn Khaldun describes the city's mode of civilization as "nomadic" and we're told by Battuta of how it teems with camels slaughtered for hilib in its alleyways. By their OWN historical traditions the oldest and old dominant tribe of Xamar was always thought to be the Moorshe, a Gibil-Madow supposed off-shoot of the Ajuuraan. For the love of Allah, one of Xamar's gates was named after the Murusade. There's no gate named after any Cadcad subtribes...



Not to mention that in the Italian census of Xamar the Italians give the most importance to the Abgaals in the city and dedicate, if I recall, like 6 pages to them and their political prominence in the town going back to the 1600s whereas every other tribe, including the Cadcad ones, was lucky to be given more than half a page. It's also funny that even all the crafts people in recent times from the stone-masons to the blacksmiths were clearly Gibil-Madow groups like the equivalent of the Gabooye in those towns and, in the case of masons, the Tunni:

Link

Even if we believe that they supposedly founded some of the Banaadir settlements and were just later joined by conquering, marauding interior Somali tribes these magaalo have not been "theirs" to control and dominate for clearly the vast majority of their history. Anyone who denies this is living in la-la land and is not worth arguing with.

I do have sympathy for Cadcads like this, however. Some ethnic Somalis were, to put it very mildly, not very nice to them after the civil war took off and I can understand the uqdad and stigma that comes with being an ethnic minority but this kind of behavior is not it. Also, personally, I don't even see Cadcads as truly foreign. So far all of them have been shown to be anything from 30-45% Somali genetically and culturally, at least historically, they were plainly Somalized people speaking our language and keeping many facets of our dhaqan whilst regularly intermarrying with Gibil-Madow groups. They are a type of unique Somali to me and I have nothing but love for them.

 

[Netflix]

Not to mention rather deluded. "Our city" kulaha. What's funny about that is that even in the only Banaadir magalaad where Cadcads had a significant enough population to genuinely rival Gibil-Madows (over 50% by a few percentage points) which was Marko; the ruling tribe and Suldaan were still Gibil-Madow (Bimaal). And they were plainly outnumbered in both Xamar and Baraawe during this period as I have and others have shown on this site time and time again. Even in 1331 the ruler/Sultan Ibn Battuta mentions is "Barbara" (Somali) while only the local Qadi, an Egyptian, was ajanabi let alone Cadcad whilst Ibn Khaldun describes the city's mode of civilization as "nomadic" and we're told by Battuta of how it teems with camels slaughtered for hilib in its alleyways. By their OWN historical traditions the oldest and old dominant tribe of Xamar was always thought to be the Moorshe, a Gibil-Madow supposed off-shoot of the Ajuuraan. For the love of Allah, one of Xamar's gates was named after the Murusade. There's no gate named after any Cadcad subtribes...



Not to mention that in the Italian census of Xamar the Italians give the most importance to the Abgaals in the city and dedicate, if I recall, like 6 pages to them and their political prominence in the town going back to the 1600s whereas every other tribe, including the Cadcad ones, was lucky to be given more than half a page. Even if we believe that they supposedly founded some of the Banaadir settlements and were just later joined by conquering, marauding interior Somali tribes these magaalo have not been "theirs" to control and dominate for clearly the vast majority of their history. Anyone who denies this is living la-la land and is not worth arguing with.

I do have sympathy for Cadcads like this, however. Some ethnic Somalis were, to put it very mildly, not very nice to them after the civil war took off and I can understand the uqdad and stigma that comes with being an ethnic minority but this kind of behavior is not it. Also, personally, I don't even see Cadcads as truly foreign. So far all of them have been shown to be anything from 30-45% Somali genetically and culturally, at least historically, they were planning Somalized people speaking our language and keeping many facets of our dhaqan whilst regularly intermarrying with Gibil-Madow groups. They are a type of unique Somali to me and I have nothing but love for them.

Wallahi, this guy's talking points are unheard of in CadCad circles. Many see themselves as Somali. This guy is just a rotten apple.

 

[Cartan Boos]

Earliest masjid built in the horn was indeed Masjid Al-Qiblateyn. Saying the oldest masjids in the horn weren't in xamar proves how little you know about history of the south. I've showed you names of Arabs from the engraved writing on their graves and they lived in 2nd hijri century.Clearly they had masjids at the time there but due to the geographical nature of the region towns got buried in sand. Shingaani and Xamar Jajab both had complete towns beneath them.The oldest masjid in modern day east Africa that's still used is Jaamacada Xamarweyne which was built by reer faqis of xamar.

Arabs and persians had authority in their respective areas of east Africa not the whole horn of course, like fakhruddin dynasty, Muzzafar dynasty,Suzan,Hilwani,Shirazi and more.

I never said banadiris built the walls surrounding Harar and walls from 14th century doesn't prove anything.Baardheere also had walls surrounding it.

Banadiris have nothing to do with Pakistan and Kerala , there isn't one banadiri tribe from Pakistan and Kerala .

And I don't understand why ethnic Somalis claim history of others does your own history not satisfy you enough?

And we do have proof in all kinds I've showed you some already yet you're persistent in your arrogant fanatic claims

u very delusional guy lol, the first masjid was not in the south but eritrea than zeila

 

[El Nino]

They are a type of unique Somali to me and I have nothing but love for them.

The dialects Reer Xamars and Reer Marka speak imo shows they are descendants of a somali groups who absorbed foreigners. Their dialects don’t even show more loanwords then regular af maxaa, clearly pointing to the foreigners assimilating to somalis.

 

[Idilinaa]

Not to mention rather deluded. "Our city" kulaha. What's funny about that is that even in the only Banaadir magalaad where Cadcads had a significant enough population to genuinely rival Gibil-Madows (over 50% by a few percentage points) which was Marko; the ruling tribe and Suldaan were still Gibil-Madow (Bimaal). And they were plainly outnumbered in both Xamar and Baraawe during this period as I have and others have shown on this site time and time again. Even in 1331 the ruler/Sultan Ibn Battuta mentions is "Barbara" (Somali) while only the local Qadi, an Egyptian, was ajanabi let alone Cadcad whilst Ibn Khaldun describes the city's mode of civilization as "nomadic" and we're told by Battuta of how it teems with camels slaughtered for hilib in its alleyways. By their OWN historical traditions the oldest and old dominant tribe of Xamar was always thought to be the Moorshe, a Gibil-Madow supposed off-shoot of the Ajuuraan. For the love of Allah, one of Xamar's gates was named after the Murusade. There's no gate named after any Cadcad subtribes...



Not to mention that in the Italian census of Xamar the Italians give the most importance to the Abgaals in the city and dedicate, if I recall, like 6 pages to them and their political prominence in the town going back to the 1600s whereas every other tribe, including the Cadcad ones, was lucky to be given more than half a page. It's also funny that even all the crafts people in recent times from the stone-masons to the blacksmiths were clearly Gibil-Madow groups like the equivalent of the Gabooye in those towns and, in the case of masons, the Tunni:

Link

Even if we believe that they supposedly founded some of the Banaadir settlements and were just later joined by conquering, marauding interior Somali tribes these magaalo have not been "theirs" to control and dominate for clearly the vast majority of their history. Anyone who denies this is living in la-la land and is not worth arguing with.

The Medieval descriptions of the towns by Arabs, Chinese and Portuguese visitors are pretty much consistent with what you saw in 1800s. With the Gibil Madows being the dominant majority in the cities and them describing them with Somali ethnic cultural traits and lifestyle.

Here is a Portuguese description on the inhabitants of Mogadishu in year 1516 before Abgaal sub clan entered in the 1600s: Makes it clear most were madow and a minority was cad.

The men are for the most part brown and black , but a few are fair . They have but few weapons , yet they use herbs on their arrows to defend themselves against their enemies .

From The Book of Duarte Barbosa

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The towns also ran on the Local Somali clan institution of Aban as described by Ibn Batuta , which makes the whole concept of foreign founding impossible.

The towns were also governed under a Somali nomadic clan council of Elders ''Guurti'', lead by a Sheikh or Sultan as the acting community head nominated by the council. Also described by the various visitors.

This is what distinguished it from towns in Arabia and the Swahilis who were governed by a single ruling families and not a council of clan elders.

I do have sympathy for Cadcads like this, however. Some ethnic Somalis were, to put it very mildly, not very nice to them after the civil war took off and I can understand the uqdad and stigma that comes with being an ethnic minority but this kind of behavior is not it. Also, personally, I don't even see Cadcads as truly foreign. So far all of them have been shown to be anything from 30-45% Somali genetically and culturally, at least historically, they were plainly Somalized people speaking our language and keeping many facets of our dhaqan whilst regularly intermarrying with Gibil-Madow groups. They are a type of unique Somali to me and I have nothing but love for them.

The Cuqdaad is misplaced, it was the cadaan colonials that messed up the dynamics in Yemen, South Arabia and Somalia for their own purposes and that eventually bled into the chaotic situation you see today.

Before that they were protected and lived in mutual co-existence and co-operation with the other Somalis.