Earliest mention of Somali

[Zak12]

No. In futuh, Adal was referred to as one entity and the “Land of the Somali” as the other. An archeologist estimated that to be around central Somaliland around Berbera.

Adal as a polity stretched from Shewa to Puntland. The Futuh makes mention of Somali clans in the military drawn from Hararghe

 

[Step a side]

No. In futuh, Adal was referred to as one entity and the “Lands of the Somali” as the other. An archeologist estimated that to be around central Somaliland around Berbera.

Are you telling us that Adal was confined to the tiny walled city of Harar?

 

[Zak12]

Are you telling us that Adal was confined to tiny walled city of Harar?

Bro thinks the Dir and Karanle clan appeared out of thin air near Harar in the 19th/20th century

 

[oogabooga]

1. Mareexaan comes from the Arabic word rayxaan or reexaan meaning Basil or Sweet smelling plant. It is even used in the Quran.

lol then why is your clan name not “rayhaan?” Last time I checked it was Marehaan. And Marehan seemed to be the strongest Somali clan at the time of Futuh so the Harari definition makes more sense.

2. Garxajis is completely Somali and means to uphold justice it is a combination of the words Gar (justice) and Xaji (uphold)

Again, that clan name isn’t “Garxaji”, it’s Garxajis. Gar means “home” and Xajis means “new”.

Gidir is another Somali word which means a woman who can’t feed her children. It is worth mentioning that Gidir was just the name of their mother which is why the Somali etymology makes sense. The name of the clan progenitor is actually Madarkicis Xiraab. His name Madarkicis means “meeting disruptor”.

Ok this one is goofy, Gidir is a core harari word. The root word is gadara (gdr), a proto-Semetic word. Your definition is probably a description of the woman mentioned that over time became synonymous with the word. Otherwise you wouldn’t call Gidir Magala “the market who can’t feed her children.”

4. Magan is another Somali word meaning to seek refuge even the Somali translation of the Ta'awwudh uses it. It’s also a super common name among all Somalis and many Somali subclan are called reer magan, by some Hawiye subclans in the south who had no contact with Hararis. This is most likely a Somali loan word to Harari rather than the other way around.

Ok this one I’m 50-50, because in Kitab Al Faraid they didn’t use Magan for protection but they used laalu. But at the same time, some semetic languages also have Magan, like Hebrew. And the harari word hegana has a similar meaning, not exactly but it’s tied by the need of defense/protection. And with the harari word for a village being ganda. So I’m not sure about this one.

Hodanbari is also so clearly Somali it’s laughable how you try to claim it as Harari. Hodan means wealthy and Bari means begging/bargaining.

Ok but just keep in mind Bari means wall in Geysinan. Very common word.

6. Koombe is also a Somali word which a different pronounciate of the word Koobe which means to abbreviate or to shorten.

Lol that’s similar to the harari definition, except that Qum is also commonly used in the Harari language.

 

[Zak12]

"Gar" is so obviously Somali in origin because many Somali words use it

Garaad = Intelligence

Garaad = Gar + aad = Seeker of Justice

Gar = Fairness, Justice Opposite is Gardarro = Injustice, aggression

Aad = Go, move towards

Garaad = Someone who combines both intelligence and fairness in their character, can dispense justice, trustworthy.

Words related to Garaad

Garbixin
Garbax
Garsiin
Garsoor
Garduuf
Gardarro
Garwaax

All speak to justice either in affirming it or denying it.

It is obvious to anyone who even studies the etymology of the Somali language that Garaad has a Somali origin. It comes from the root etymology ''Gar'' which is the root construct of several legal and governance word constructs within the legal system of Xeer and the Somali language. Few examples i saw someone post elsewhere about the Xeer legal terminology, notice they all begin with ''Gar''



@KillStreakIsCool is spot on . Gar(Justice/Wisdom) + Aad (Move towards) = Garaad= One who moves towards or seeks Justice.

Some examples of other Somali word constructions using Gar-Garaad. From A Grammar of the Somali Language: With Examples in Prose and Verse by Kirk

 

[Emir of Zayla]

Bro have you heard of assimilation? Please show us the genealogy and I’ll care to explain.

I don’t feel the need to talk about it much cause this source has been brought up before and you’ve seen it a few months ago when another user brought it up and you didn’t have any good counter for it:

The Harla that assimilated into the Afar still traced themselves back with a Somali lineage, and mind you the author of this study below then claims that it was as a result of Somali assimilation, in the 16th century, without any corroborating evidence, but this is illogical, as even in a scenario of a ‘double-assimilation’, the Harla would still have a family tree prior to their supposed ‘Somali + Afar assimilation’ that we today could reference but its an uninterrupted Somali lineage, and the same goes for the Harla that were absorbed by another Somali clan like the Isa.

If they were indeed a non-Somali group absorbed by the Somali, they wouldn’t have had an existing Somali lineage prior to joining the Isa clan. In other examples we know that it wasn’t uncommon for Afars to assimilate Somalis in the periphery areas of Greater Somalia. The Afars with Somali heritage in the Islands and on the coast of Eritrea could also trace their lineage in a precise manner back to a Somali clan from the far Northeastern part of Somalia.

View attachment 326255
SOURCE​

Sounds like a bunch of copium because in fact he is one of the most accurate sources in the region. He did his job so well in fact that he made a whole Harari dictionary and a guide about its grammar and syntax, and then you have the audacity to say it’s inaccurate?

He was only in Harar for ten days and somehow wrote an entire dictionary and guide for grammar and syntax on the language while the Harar Emir had watchmen making sure he wasn’t doing anything funny like reading their texts? I know the exact part of the book you’re talking about but Richard is a known liar and is wrong on a lot of things in his books. Don’t take this guy seriously.

https://everythingharar.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2020_Some_further_remarks_on_the_Old_Har.pdf

http://www.hamzazafer.com/old-harari#:~:text=Old%20Harari%20(also%20Harla)%20is,Classical%20Ethiopic%20or%20Ge'ez.

Give me evidence that this was written in the 1580s. I want concrete proof like evidence for carbon dating.

Adios bro, talk to me when ur logic improves.

All I saw was cope and not any actual debunk of what she says. Anyways I’m done arguing with you, it’s a waste of time for me.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

lol then why is your clan name not “rayhaan?” Last time I checked it was Marehaan. And Marehan seemed to be the strongest Somali clan at the time of Futuh so the Harari definition makes more sense.

Again, that clan name isn’t “Garxaji”, it’s Garxajis. Gar means “home” and Xajis means “new”.

Ok this one is goofy, Gidir is a core harari word. The root word is gadara (gdr), a proto-Semetic word. Your definition is probably a description of the woman mentioned that over time became synonymous with the word. Otherwise you wouldn’t call Gidir Magala “the market who can’t feed her children.”

Ok this one I’m 50-50, because in Kitab Al Faraid they didn’t use Magan for protection but they used laalu. But at the same time, some semetic languages also have Magan, like Hebrew. And the harari word hegana has a similar meaning, not exactly but it’s tied by the need of defense/protection. And with the harari word for a village being ganda. So I’m not sure about this one.

Ok but just keep in mind Bari means wall in Geysinan. Very common word.

Lol that’s similar to the harari definition, except that Qum is also commonly used in the Harari language.

I’m laughing, half of what you just said rn is bs. Anyone can make up etymologies for words in different languages, doesn’t mean it’s true though.
For example, English word for Beautiful = Biyo (Water) + tif (place) + ool( gathers) = “macnaha meel biyo badani yaalaan am a marayaan aya qurux leg.” — Where there is water in abundance there is a beauty.
English word for Pen= Ba'een (smear) =.
“Macanaha khadka Ku jira qalinku hadaan Ku ba'ayn bogga lagu qorayo qoraal masuura galeen” — If the ink in the pen wasn't getting smeared on the page no writing would have been possible.
English word for Comedian = Kuu + maadeyn = Kuu ( for you) maadeeyn ( jesting or telling u jokes)
English word for Battle = Ba' + taal = Ba' ( calamity such as death ) taal ( is) for what is there in a battle but death and wounds and fear and hate.”

Again, that clan name isn’t “Garxaji”, it’s Garxajis. Gar means “home” and Xajis means “new”.

 

[Laser]

I’m laughing, half of what you just said rn is bs. Anyone can make up etymologies for words in different languages, doesn’t mean it’s true though.
For example, English word for Beautiful = Biyo (Water) + tif (place) + ool( gathers) = “macnaha meel biyo badani yaalaan am a marayaan aya qurux leg.” — Where there is water in abundance there is a beauty.
English word for Pen= Ba'een (smear) =.
“Macanaha khadka Ku jira qalinku hadaan Ku ba'ayn bogga lagu qorayo qoraal masuura galeen” — If the ink in the pen wasn't getting smeared on the page no writing would have been possible.
English word for Comedian = Kuu + maadeyn = Kuu ( for you) maadeeyn ( jesting or telling u jokes)
English word for Battle = Ba' + taal = Ba' ( calamity such as death ) taal ( is) for what is there in a battle but death and wounds and fear and hate.”

Man makes up some suugo etymology and thinks it's legit while discrediting the obviously correct one, it's as if an American came to you and said "Lug" in af Soomaali is borrowed from "Leg" in English. You should be capable of critical thinking when doing them maths here.

 

[ICEcold]

@oogabooga are you positing that Hararis left the ruins deep into modern day Somalia, as far as Bari on the Indian Ocean? This sounds quite far fetched but assuming this was true, do you believe they lived amongst Somali pastoralists or the pastoralists came much later to the North East?

It's not possible for a sizeable Harari and Somali population to have lived in close proximity because our genetic profile doesn't suggest this.

It's not possible to have inhabited this area before Somalis because our presence has been documented in Northern Somalia since at least the 14th century.

I understand you love your people and their history, but you're doing yourself a disservice by making far-fetched claims like this that could be classed as fiction without controversy.

 

[ICEcold]

half of y’all clan names come from the Harari language

Half is an exaggeration but a lot are actually from the Harari language.

1. Marihan - derived from the harari word “maraxa” meaning “to get booty, to capture, to captivate (figuratively).” The noun version of maraxa is maraxan.
2. Garxajis - means “new house” in the Harari language
3. Habar Gidir - Gidir is a harari word meaning “big.” Gadara is a variation that means exalted or elevated.
4. Reer Alamagan- Alamagan means “i seek protection from Allah.”
5. Reer Hodanbari - Hodanbari means “the covered wall.”
6. Koombe- koom means “very little” and -be means “with”. it means “with very little.” Example is of the ancient city Qumizar near berbera.

This might be one of the most unhinged things I've ever read

 

[oogabooga]

"Gar" is so obviously Somali in origin because many Somali words use it

I can make the same argument for the Harari language because it’s such a common word for us. It’s literally the meaning of home, and Harari homes are quite unique.

 

[oogabooga]

don’t feel the need to talk about it much cause this source has been brought up before and you’ve seen it a few months ago when another user brought it up and you didn’t have any good counter for it:

That’s because I wasn’t aware of the topic at the time, so I did some reevaluation of my current thoughts. At the end, all that lineage did was just assert how Hararis have ties with Darod clan as a whole, and it all starts with Abdurahman Gabarti.

The founder of the Darod clan is named Abdurahman Jabarti, as noted by many sources. Oral sources say that Abdurahman Jabarti was an Arab, but like other lineage stories we can take that with a grain of salt.

The last name Jabarti leaves us with a lot of clues. If we look at Egyptian sources, we notice that they referred to people from the Horn of Africa as Jabarti or Gabarti. This suggests that Abdurahman Jabarti was most likely from the Horn of Africa. To make things more interesting, the Abysinnian Chronicles mention of a land called Gabar-ge, which was a Muslim land that they took over and was ruled by a Hegano. Gabar is a harari word referring to tame or vassal (more info in the screenshot I sent). Hegano is a harari title for a leader, stemming from the word hegana, meaning to replace (I sent another screenshot for that).

When looking at the tree you showed, I agree with the author of the one who documented that tree saying that “it’s possible to suppose that their integration into Somali lineage is later than the 16th century” (I screenshotted that too). AKA assimilation. We know Marehan is not the brother of Harti and Kari, hence that family tree was giving a generalization and not specificity, especially considering it goes way back and there are gaps in the lineage as it goes up.

Look at the names of the three clans next to Harla. Marehan I already explained its meaning before. Harti and Kiri are really interesting because it’s exact opposites of each other in the Harari language. Harti means “ she went/left (-ti is “she” and Hara means “go” and Hara becomes Har when a suffix is added) and Kiri means “stay (command to a female, root word is kara)”. I sent screenshot of those two below as well. And considering their ancestor was Koombe, which has root word “kum” in harari language like the ancient town of Qumizar (screenshot of that is also sent below). If you look lower in the list, you can see Harari names like Awari (saint of Harar, meaning Aw Strange) and Dus (honey).

Hence, Darod are related to Hararis.

He was only in Harar for ten days and somehow wrote an entire dictionary and guide for grammar and syntax on the language while the Harar Emir had watchmen making sure he wasn’t doing anything funny like reading their texts? I know the exact part of the book you’re talking about but Richard is a known liar and is wrong on a lot of things in his books. Don’t take this guy seriously.

You also know how he was able to do that if you read the book. He didn’t write it in Harar but in one of the Somali villages with the help of a slave fluent in many languages (there were a few mistakes but otherwise really well done). Richard Burton has the most accurate source for his time, ofc he had to since he was in the employ of the British govt (prolly a spy).

Give me evidence that this was written in the 1580s. I want concrete proof like evidence for carbon dating.

ok I’ll refer that over to Dr. Sherif. He’s working with some researchers to digitize most of the manuscripts.

All I saw was cope and not any actual debunk of what she says. Anyways I’m done arguing with you, it’s a waste of time for me.

Cope? You know the same author said that Somalis weren’t part of Adal?

 

[oogabooga]

I’m laughing, half of what you just said rn is bs. Anyone can make up etymologies for words in different languages, doesn’t mean it’s true though.
For example, English word for Beautiful = Biyo (Water) + tif (place) + ool( gathers) = “macnaha meel biyo badani yaalaan am a marayaan aya qurux leg.” — Where there is water in abundance there is a beauty.
English word for Pen= Ba'een (smear) =.
“Macanaha khadka Ku jira qalinku hadaan Ku ba'ayn bogga lagu qorayo qoraal masuura galeen” — If the ink in the pen wasn't getting smeared on the page no writing would have been possible.
English word for Comedian = Kuu + maadeyn = Kuu ( for you) maadeeyn ( jesting or telling u jokes)
English word for Battle = Ba' + taal = Ba' ( calamity such as death ) taal ( is) for what is there in a battle but death and wounds and fear and hate.”

Yes you make a valid point. That’s called false cognates. But we are geographically next to each other so that’s less likely to be the case, and it requires much more depth to come to a complete undersrand of etymology. However, compared to you, I’m bringing up word definitions, their roots, their word origins, and their historical/geographical context. Meanwhile you sent me a screenshot from a random page, with no connection to any of what I’ve brought forth.

 

[Zak12]

I can make the same argument for the Harari language because it’s such a common word for us. It’s literally the meaning of home, and Harari homes are quite unique.

Now which meaning makes more sense in most context regarding names, titles ect, "intelligent" or "home"?

 

[oogabooga]

Now which meaning makes more sense in most context regarding names, titles ect, "intelligent" or "home"?

Yeah you are right, intelligent makes more sense in this regard. In the Harari language, “to differentiate” is garada. That word is proto-Semetic, as shown below. I’ll let you make the conclusion yourself.

 

[Zak12]

In the Harari language, “to differentiate” is garada

And what connection does that have with the Somali Gar?

 

[oogabooga]

And what connection does that have with the Somali Gar?

You mentioned title, so you were referring to Garad.

 

[Zak12]

You mentioned title, so you were referring to Garad.

Yes and its root word means intelligence or wisdom, not house or differentiate

 

[Idilinaa]

That’s because I wasn’t aware of the topic at the time, so I did some reevaluation of my current thoughts. At the end, all that lineage did was just assert how Hararis have ties with Darod clan as a whole, and it all starts with Abdurahman Gabarti.

The founder of the Darod clan is named Abdurahman Jabarti, as noted by many sources. Oral sources say that Abdurahman Jabarti was an Arab, but like other lineage stories we can take that with a grain of salt.

The last name Jabarti leaves us with a lot of clues. If we look at Egyptian sources, we notice that they referred to people from the Horn of Africa as Jabarti or Gabarti. This suggests that Abdurahman Jabarti was most likely from the Horn of Africa. To make things more interesting, the Abysinnian Chronicles mention of a land called Gabar-ge, which was a Muslim land that they took over and was ruled by a Hegano. Gabar is a harari word referring to tame or vassal (more info in the screenshot I sent). Hegano is a harari title for a leader, stemming from the word hegana, meaning to replace (I sent another screenshot for that).

Jabarti was the name of Northern and Western Somalia/Galbeed. It comes from the Arabic word Djabara-Djabarta ''the burning country '' in refrence to burning hot lowlands . Therefore it's frequently called it Al-Jabartiyyah in sources. Al-Maqrizi reports this explanation and he was given this info from Zayla Qadis/Students in Cairo.

. Islam et sociétés au sud du Sahara -

Jabart originally meant a region in Zayla ' and Ifât , but was later extended to refer to Ethiopian Muslims in general.

Somalis used to use it as their Nisba throughout the middle ages alongside Al-Zayla etc to indicate their place of origin until it was abandoned for Al-Sumali in the pre-modern period when they called the land instead Al-Somaliyyah

Also the patriarch Abdurrahman Jabarti is buried in Sanaag in the far Northern Eastern part of Somalia and Eastern part of it also has individuals that bore the Nisba Jabarti that emigrated from it.

When looking at the tree you showed, I agree with the author of the one who documented that tree saying that “it’s possible to suppose that their integration into Somali lineage is later than the 16th century” (I screenshotted that too). AKA assimilation. We know Marehan is not the brother of Harti and Kari, hence that family tree was giving a generalization and not specificity, especially considering it goes way back and there are gaps in the lineage as it goes up.

Look at the names of the three clans next to Harla. Marehan I already explained its meaning before. Harti and Kiri are really interesting because it’s exact opposites of each other in the Harari language. Harti means “ she went/left (-ti is “she” and Hara means “go” and Hara becomes Har when a suffix is added) and Kiri means “stay (command to a female, root word is kara)”. I sent screenshot of those two below as well. And considering their ancestor was Koombe, which has root word “kum” in harari language like the ancient town of Qumizar (screenshot of that is also sent below). If you look lower in the list, you can see Harari names like Awari (saint of Harar, meaning Aw Strange) and Dus (honey).

Hence, Darod are related to Hararis.

Marehan is the brother/cousin of Kabllala which is further segmented into Kombe-Harti . Darood clan is primarily divided into Marehan and Kablalla which includes Harti and Geri which is spelled as Kari in that manuscript.

Geri means Giraffe and Harti means ''The Strong Man'' in the Somali language they are very straightforward in the language and so on. Somali clan names are typically either Somali or Arabic names/words in origin.

And Darood has nothing to do with Harari, no one has even attempted to tie a connection like that.

The Harla that assimilated into the Afar still traced themselves back with a Somali lineage, and mind you the author of this study below then claims that it was as a result of Somali assimilation, in the 16th century, without any corroborating evidence, but this is illogical, as even in a scenario of a ‘double-assimilation’, the Harla would still have a family tree prior to their supposed ‘Somali + Afar assimilation’ that we today could reference but its an uninterrupted Somali lineage, and the same goes for the Harla that were absorbed by another Somali clan like the Isa.

If they were indeed a non-Somali group absorbed by the Somali, they wouldn’t have had an existing Somali lineage prior to joining the Isa clan. In other examples we know that it wasn’t uncommon for Afars to assimilate Somalis in the periphery areas of Greater Somalia. The Afars with Somali heritage in the Islands and on the coast of Eritrea could also trace their lineage in a precise manner back to a Somali clan from the far Northeastern part of Somalia.

View attachment 326255
SOURCE

Also they speak a totally different dialect from Issa , called Af-Harlaad alongside their Darood lineage. It's like claiming Tunni iyo Raxanweyn are Somali assimilates if we follow that logic and people who you assimilate speak your dialect not a different one.

So trying to suggest they are assimilates by Somalis is a pretty weak argument in light of evidence and it makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

[Idilinaa]

Are you telling us that Adal was confined to the tiny walled city of Harar?

I tried to explain to him in a different thread that the other capital before Harar was Dakar aka Dogor which is near Hargeisa and its a walled city with ruins houses, mosques, tombs, traces of a wall , it's a large distance away from Harar. And it's location is confirmed in a medieval manuscript but he kept trying to say it was near Harar with no proof

Map of it's location and mentions of it:

Interesting there is a shrine there too. I guess that's what was being referred to when she said Paulitschke located it to ''Aw Berkele'' and her argument was that the grave and shrine in Somaliland has a ruins of a large town that closely corresponds with Dakar and the locals call it Dogor still.

Saints and Somalis: Popular Islam in a Clan-based Society​

northern Somaliland is Sharif Yuusuf Barkhadle , whose shrine lies near the dry river bed of Dogor , some twenty miles to the north - east of the provincial capital of Hargeisa

Found also Ulrich Braukamper mentioning it and he also mentions the shrine in Harar and another one southwest of it but he specifies that where the one in Somaliland is located in is the main shrine in a place called Dogor and all other places are secondary to it.

Map from the same source showing the location of Dogor near Hargeisa:

Somali style burial tombs near the Aw Barkhadle shrine.

Outside of this grand narrative, at it's core the book presents significant new material for example:

How the archeology of Aw Barkhadle fits within the medieval political landscape. It was a walled town whose remains features traces of a stone wall surrounding it , ruined houses, and couple of mosques and tombs. The old town in which the shrine is located is called ''Doggor'' or Dakkar which was the name of Awdal capital in the 15-16th century.