Half-Somalis are not Somali

[Sol]

I know quite a few half-somalis in the UK who still have strong links to their Somali but all of them have a Somali father

 

[Nak-Muay-Kru]

Exactly! I don't acknowledge half somalis as somalis regardless on what side they got their somali genes from!

It's the dumbest shit wallahi. If some mixed cadaan-maddow guy started claiming to be a blue eyed Aryan and started throwing up Roman salutes, he'd get laughted out the fucking building lol

I've known a handful of mixed "Somalis" over the years and most of them were plagued by indentity issues/imposter syndrome.

 

[Al-Ma'mun]

It's the dumbest shit wallahi. If some mixed cadaan-maddow guy started claiming to be a blue eyed Aryan and started throwing up Roman salutes, he'd get laughted out the fucking building lol

Two different societies can have different cultural norms.In Morocco many of there Sultans were Mulatoes (West African slave mothers) and ruled over the kingdom as Moroccans belonging to the royal house and clan.Same thing all over the Islamic world like the Black Arabs of the Swahili coast with Arab lineages enslaving black people.

The Islamic World and the West views ethnic identity very differently.The west is more race orientated while Arab (including the Somali side kicks) societies seen ethnic and clan identity as something you solely inherit from your father.

Only in Islamic society can a slave owner's child with his slavegirl have full rights while in the West that child was doomed to slavery for not being pure white despite carrying his father's lineage

 

[SOMALI GENERAL]

Two different societies can have different cultural norms.In Morocco many of there Sultans were Mulatoes (West African slave mothers) and ruled over the kingdom as Moroccans belonging to the royal house and clan.Same thing all over the Islamic world like the Black Arabs of the Swahili coast with Arab lineages enslaving black people.

The Islamic World and the West views ethnic identity very differently.The west is more race orientated while Arab (including the Somali side kicks) societies seen ethnic and clan identity as something you solely inherit from your father.

Only in Islamic society can a slave owner's child with his slavegirl have full rights while in the West that child was doomed to slavery for not being pure white despite carrying his father's lineage

Exactly. Some folks on here have adopted a highly racialist position due to Western/European influence that runs counter to traditional Somali customs.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

What is with the argument that Half-Somalis with a Somali Hooyo cannot have anything to do with their Somali side.

It is true that islamicially lineage will always come from the Father's side and that is where a person gets their abtiris from. It is haram for anyone to ascribe themselves to a lineage that they do not belong to as the Prophet (saw) forbade that.

However that does not mean a person's whole ethnicity is wiped out, Lineage and ethnicity are two different things. Look at Bilal bin Rabah (ra) as a example. His father was a Arab slave but he was still referred to as Al-Habashi. Hooyo's side is still respected even if you do not get your lineage from her.

Stop hiding your cunsuurinimo with these arguments and lets go back to the way of the Prophet (saw) and his generation. I will always have respect and love for my reer abti side, but this argument brought forward is flawed.

Passing down lineage is one of the privileges and honour that Allah bestowed upon men but this fact shouldn't be used to belittle, ridicule etc nor lead to negation of it. When this topic comes up most tend to fall into 2 extremes, they either use it to discriminate or they're in denial.

Lineage and ethnicity are interlinked and as result the children inherit the father's lineage and ethnicity. However there are exceptions to this such as the case of zina where the children are attributed to the mother or lineage assimilation via being conquered etc

With regards to Bilal RA he was referred to as Al-habashi or ibn (son) of Hamama (mother) due to the noteworthy reputation of his mother descending from royal blood as she was a former princess before being sold into slavery. Not that he actually descended from her lineage as he was an actual arabs

The affiliation of Bilal to his mother is not one of lineage but one of status as he was called habashi to draw attention to the social standing of his mother. It was a cultural tradition among the arabs at the time to also address people by their mother's name due to the mother having exceptional quality in reputation, social standing etc.

Among the companions we also have Ammar ibn Yassir RA who is also sometimes referred to as Ammar ibn Sumayya in honour of his mother Sumayya who is counted among the earliest converts and martyrs of islam May Allah be pleased with them all. Hope this clears the confusion

Furthermore learning somali dhaqan, luqaad, and having a somali lineage are not matters which are mutually exclusive to each other. Not having a somali lineage doesn't mean you're barred from learning, maintaining ties of kinship or even identifying with all the other aspects that are associated with being somali.

Having said that, the term "half-somali" is misleading and problematic from an islamic perspective as it leads to denial of a person's lineage. It implies that somehow lineage is inherited equally between the father & mother which contradicts diinta as it's only the father that passes down lineage to the children.

I also understand that this is a very sensitive issue for you brother but you need to remember that you shouldn't let the negative experiences, stigmatization etc dictate your outlook in life and also when it comes to diinta. Allah decreed that you be born from a different nation than that of your mother and you should be honoured and embrace it exactly the same way that any other person would embrace their own.

 

[Abdirahman00]

Passing down lineage is one of the privileges and honour that Allah bestowed upon men but this fact shouldn't be used to belittle, ridicule etc nor lead to negation of it. When this topic comes up most tend to fall into 2 extremes, they either use it to discriminate or they're in denial.

Lineage and ethnicity are interlinked and as result the children inherit the father's lineage and ethnicity. However there are exceptions to this such as the case of zina where the children are attributed to the mother or lineage assimilation via being conquered etc

With regards to Bilal RA he was referred to as Al-habashi or ibn (son) of Hamama (mother) due to the noteworthy reputation of his mother descending from royal blood as she was a former princess before being sold into slavery. Not that he actually descended from her lineage as he was an actual arabs

The affiliation of Bilal to his mother is not one of lineage but one of status as he was called habashi to draw attention to the social standing of his mother. It was a cultural tradition among the arabs at the time to also address people by their mother's name due to the mother having exceptional quality in reputation, social standing etc.

Among the companions we also have Ammar ibn Yassir RA who is also sometimes referred to as Ammar ibn Sumayya in honour of his mother Sumayya who is counted among the earliest converts and martyrs of islam May Allah be pleased with them all. Hope this clears the confusion

Furthermore learning somali dhaqan, luqaad, and having a somali lineage are not matters which are mutually exclusive to each other. Not having a somali lineage doesn't mean you're barred from learning, maintaining ties of kinship or even identifying with all the other aspects that are associated with being somali.

Having said that, the term "half-somali" is misleading and problematic from an islamic perspective as it leads to denial of a person's lineage. It implies that somehow lineage is inherited equally between the father & mother which contradicts diinta as it's only the father that passes down lineage to the children.

I also understand that this is a very sensitive issue for you brother but you need to remember that you shouldn't let the negative experiences, stigmatization etc dictate your outlook in life and also when it comes to diinta. Allah decreed that you be born from a different nation than that of your mother and you should be honoured and embrace it exactly the same way that any other person would embrace their own.

Thanks for the clarification walaal. Best explanation i've seen on this topic and a viewpoint I am happy to accept. May Allah bless you for speaking the truth

 

[Abdirahman00]

Passing down lineage is one of the privileges and honour that Allah bestowed upon men but this fact shouldn't be used to belittle, ridicule etc nor lead to negation of it. When this topic comes up most tend to fall into 2 extremes, they either use it to discriminate or they're in denial.

Lineage and ethnicity are interlinked and as result the children inherit the father's lineage and ethnicity. However there are exceptions to this such as the case of zina where the children are attributed to the mother or lineage assimilation via being conquered etc

With regards to Bilal RA he was referred to as Al-habashi or ibn (son) of Hamama (mother) due to the noteworthy reputation of his mother descending from royal blood as she was a former princess before being sold into slavery. Not that he actually descended from her lineage as he was an actual arabs

The affiliation of Bilal to his mother is not one of lineage but one of status as he was called habashi to draw attention to the social standing of his mother. It was a cultural tradition among the arabs at the time to also address people by their mother's name due to the mother having exceptional quality in reputation, social standing etc.

Among the companions we also have Ammar ibn Yassir RA who is also sometimes referred to as Ammar ibn Sumayya in honour of his mother Sumayya who is counted among the earliest converts and martyrs of islam May Allah be pleased with them all. Hope this clears the confusion

Furthermore learning somali dhaqan, luqaad, and having a somali lineage are not matters which are mutually exclusive to each other. Not having a somali lineage doesn't mean you're barred from learning, maintaining ties of kinship or even identifying with all the other aspects that are associated with being somali.

Having said that, the term "half-somali" is misleading and problematic from an islamic perspective as it leads to denial of a person's lineage. It implies that somehow lineage is inherited equally between the father & mother which contradicts diinta as it's only the father that passes down lineage to the children.

I also understand that this is a very sensitive issue for you brother but you need to remember that you shouldn't let the negative experiences, stigmatization etc dictate your outlook in life and also when it comes to diinta. Allah decreed that you be born from a different nation than that of your mother and you should be honoured and embrace it exactly the same way that any other person would embrace their own.

One question I have is in regard to you saying that ethnicity and lineage are the same. What about the Prophet Muhummad (saw) who descended from the line of Ibrahim (as) and Ismaeil (as). Ibrahim (as) was from the levant, he was not a Arab. And we all know the Prophet Mohammed (saw) was a Arab. Isn't that evidence that ethnicity and lineage differ?

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Thanks for the clarification walaal. Best explanation i've seen on this topic and a viewpoint I am happy to accept. May Allah bless you for speaking the truth

Wa iyyakum brother

May Allah bless you to

Ameen

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

One question I have is in regard to you saying that ethnicity and lineage are the same. What about the Prophet Muhummad (saw) who descended from the line of Ibrahim (as) and Ismaeil (as). Ibrahim (as) was from the levant, he was not a Arab. And we all know the Prophet Mohammed (saw) was a Arab. Isn't that evidence that ethnicity and lineage differ?

You need to remember that the further back you go in genealogy the more ancient lineage becomes. The lineage of the Prophet ﷺ is traced back up to adnan who is the ancestor of arabs that live in north, central eastern arabia etc while southern arabs have a different ancestor. Ancestor of all arabs must obviously belong to lineage now what name did they go by, what was their ethnicity called etc we don't know at least i don't.

Take for instance we somalis call ourselves somali because we descend from our ancestor samaale, now samaale didn't refer to himself as somali for obvious reasons nor was there a somali ethnicity at the time. This however doesn't mean that we share a different lineage than samaale just that our lineage comes later on, so we're whatever lineage or ethnicity samaale was. Hope this was helpful

 

[greznigrezni]

You need to remember that the further back you go in genealogy the more ancient lineage becomes. The lineage of the Prophet ﷺ is traced back up to adnan who is the ancestor of arabs that live in north, central eastern arabia etc while southern arabs have a different ancestor. Ancestor of all arabs must obviously belong to lineage now what name did they go by, what was their ethnicity called etc we don't know at least i don't.

Take for instance we somalis call ourselves somali because we descend from our ancestor samaale, now samaale didn't refer to himself as somali for obvious reasons nor was there a somali ethnicity at the time. This however doesn't mean that we share a different lineage than samaale just that our lineage comes later on, so we're whatever lineage or ethnicity samaale was. Hope this was helpful

Samaale is an ayrab who claimed to be from Banu Hashim. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a thief. Somaleis and their voodoo mythical stories.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

@Abdirahman000

Also forgot to add that some groups don't derive their ethnic name from their ancestry but location etc so their actual lineage and ethnicity are not interlinked if you go back. So you're right that not all lineages are linked to their ethnicity

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

Samaale is an ayrab who claimed to be from Banu Hashim. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a thief. Somaleis and their voodoo mythical stories.

What are you on about ?

 

[greznigrezni]

What are you on about ?

Samaale wasn't a real person.

 

[Man with a garuun]

@Sigala needs to come in and say something here.

 

[HiraanBorn]

Yes in Somali society your lineage descends from your father and not your mother. The clan comes from the paternal side and not the maternal side.

My father is Cad Cad but my mother is Abgaal Hawiye but I'm seen as belonging to my father's people. That makes me Cad Cad and not Somali.

I've decided to marry a Xabashi woman in the future because they are less jaahil than Somalis. I'm done with you people.

 

[reer]

@Abdirahman000

Also forgot to add that some groups don't derive their ethnic name from their ancestry but location etc so their actual lineage and ethnicity are not interlinked if you go back. So you're right that not all lineages are linked to their ethnicity

i have to disagree sxb. abtirsi and somali ethnicity stopped being mutually inclusive in the diaspora. a kid with a somali aabo and ajnabi hooyo who looks ajnabi and barely speaks af somali and is integrated into host society is classed as non somali. ha abtirsado. laakiin if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

[Apollo]

It depends.

Conservative boomer diaspora Somalis will not consider them Somali even if they have a paternal Somali lineage because most of them speak Somali badly and don't have Somali culture.

Woke zoomer diaspora Somalis will consider them as fellow Somalis, but the moment a half white Somali crosses the line and is in disagreement with them they dismiss half Somalis as fake Somalis.

Broke fob Somalis living in the Horn will not consider them as Somali, even if they speak good Somali and will roast them nonstop for their non-Somali features and give them rude nicknames.

 

[AdoonkaAlle]

i have to disagree sxb. abtirsi and somali ethnicity stopped being mutually inclusive in the diaspora. a kid with a somali aabo and ajnabi hooyo who looks ajnabi and barely speaks af somali and is integrated into host society is classed as non somali. ha abtirsado. laakiin if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Laakin that scenario also applies to kids where both parents are Somali who’ve also integrated & don’t speak Somali. What then ? are we going to claim that they’re not Somali ?

Lineage is not just ancestry but considered a right that individuals are entitled to in Islam. That’s why it can’t be negated from anyone even if they’ve forgotten their language, culture etc. They maybe foreign in terms of culture & language but they’re Somali in lineage nonetheless.

 

[Sigala]

@Sigala needs to come in and say something here.

I did the kids not cute it don't look even quarter somali let alone half. I would never go for an cadaan I don't want my child to look like the father.

 

[greznigrezni]

I did the kids not cute it don't look even quarter somali let alone half. I would never go for an cadaan I don't want my child to look like the father.

*HE