Hassan Sheikh Mohamud: “I will take back all our migrants from Germany!”

[Rayaale]

Just to add to this i prefer Somalis to not repeat christian white right wing talking points of welfare or criminality nonsense when it comes to Somali immigrants, these people will despise you regardless if you live in their land or you live back in your homeland., regardless if you work or not work, if you commit crime or not commit crime. They will just spew propaganda to cast you in a bad light.

It's not what you do that's a problem to them, it's what you represent as a Black/African, Muslim they have a problem with.

Take for example the state of Maine i shared stats on, articles and posts to show how much of a model success story Somali immigrants have been for that city.




This did not prevent Donald Trump and their right wing co-horts in smearing Somali population in Maine with slanderous lies about crime, when did his campaigning

Trump’s statements about Somali immigrants in Maine draw rebuke​

Trump’s statements about Somali immigrants in Maine draw rebuke

The Republican presidential nominee hints at a correlation between Somali immigrants and more crime, but local police chiefs say property crime and violent crime are down.

www.pressherald.com

Let me remind you that , Somalis have not formed gangs or participated in crime and their own police department came out against what Donald Trump said. They still tried to pin that narrative on us.




So it's important to not try to locate and perceive your own people through the minds of these cadaan gaalos or racists online. What we should do instead is study ourselves to improve things, and adopt a pragmatic approach rooted in identifying our own best interests.

Most of the people in this forum are young and naive

 

[cow]

The major of mogadishu should take abgaal back to mogadishu.

 

[Cartan Boos]

thousand of ciyaal suuq with gaalo mindset set free in somalia doesn't sound good

 

[Idilinaa]

"Most Somalis who struggle to gain employment in the west especially in Mainland Europe don't rely on welfare"

In the Netherlands, 70% of Somalis receive some form of welfare. While numbers in the UK and Sweden are harder to obtain, a study in the London Borough of Waltham Forest, which could serve as a representative sample for UK Somalis, shows that 70% of Somali households there receive some form of benefits.

I would be shocked if Sweden, Norway, Finland and Germany aren't in the same ballpark.

While your example of Maine is a positive one, European lawmakers have already noticed a significant difference between EU and American Somali diaspora communities. European Somalis tend to do worse economically, partly because the community continually receives new immigrants. However, even before 2014, the two groups were diverging in terms of economic and integration levels. Some speculate that Europe’s more generous welfare benefits may contribute to lesser economic prosperity through employment opting to stay within the welfare system.

I don’t believe welfare or criminality should be taboo topics. It’s better to discuss these issues in a safe environment within our own community, where we know people are raising these concerns out of care for our people, rather than ignoring them until they become obvious to outsiders like a pink elephant.

I don’t fundamentally disagree with your latter points. However, remittances aren’t a sustainable economic model. As years pass and older generations die off, the bond between second, third, and even fourth generations of the diaspora will weaken, leading remittances to decrease before eventually drying up. Somalia needs a real economy, not a model of cramming as many Somalis into the West to send money back like tenants paying landlords.

I’m not making extreme claims. All I’m saying is that the majority of remittances from Western Europe come from Somali households that receive benefits. Not all, but most. These families are already struggling financially, and the remittances they send back take away from money they could spend on themselves and their children.

I don't care about christian nationalist, yes they hate us regardless, that is no reason to not have internal dialogue about our own issues. Wanting lower unemployement is good for Somalis.

I believe they most often conflate the rate of unemployment with welfare recipients. So i doubt it is 70%, much lower than that and they are not sending welfare money back to Somalia like the study i showed you , it doesn't leave room for extra to even do that as the people they have interviewed told them.

I have never said they are taboo topics that shouldn't be discussed and i have freely talked about Somalis in mainland Europe and how they face employment barriers which are listed below

I wouldn't say they are on par with American Somalis, Australian or UAE Somalis who are in more open market capitalist environments

But they are doing better than mainland Europeans Somalis because of the more open business climate, with less barriers. It's one of the biggest reasons why mainland European Somalis move there

I also talk about how the 2nd generation have a higher employment participation rate, nearing 70% or more.

But here is a like a statline that show 2nd generation Scandinavians born to immigrant parents which Somalis are included in : 87,3 percent of them are in education/&or employment vs 89,9% with native born parents.

Why do i bring up Maine and American Somalis in general and the 2nd generation? because they break the myth of Somalis not wanting to work and rely on welfare.

Figures for Somalis in Minnesota's largest county, they rely on less welfare than white americans.

Rochester, Minn. / Many Somalis getting off welfare

Abdifatah Abdinur spoke no English when his family immigrated here in 1995, but he can still remember how embarrassed he was at needing food stamps. “Somali men and women like to be independe…

www.twincities.com

On the state's so-called "self-support index" -- based either on working at least 30 hours a week or departing from welfare altogether --Somalis in Dakota County are earning a rating of 80 percent vs. 72 percent for whites, she said.

Minnesota Somali statewide employment rates is similar to the rest as well

Statewide, the figures are 78 percent for whites, 75 percent for Somalis, 76 percent for other African immigrants and 58 percent for U.S.-born blacks and American Indians. Hispanics -- most native-born -- and Asians, including Hmong, have rates in the same range as whites and African immigrants.

You can also add Australian Somalis to the list who have an employment rate of 62% which a percent chunk of this are in skilled managerial and professional occupations, closely corresponding the general population of 70%.


It has to do with the difference in labor market and the barriers to entry, not because they are lazy and don't want to work and rely on welfare, so they can send it back.


The problem i have with the welfare discourse, which i have discussed before. It's because it's used as poor bashing ethnic migrants and create false abuse and fraud narratives. They don't just do this to European Somalis, they do it to American Somalis and even Canadian Somalis.

Exploit the system is misleading framing and its untrue. They are using the services that is given to them, much like the natives are but are more reliant on them because of their economic situation as refugees.

For example in the book ''Poor Bashing: The Politics of Exclusion'' they showed that allegations of rampant welfare scam/fraud in Canadian Somalis were constantly being reported on the news even when the govt investigated on it found any evidence of it and these allegations were baseless.

The criminality part is also nonsensical. It is not linked to non-western immigration at all, the Maine case is perfect example to show this. Why would Somalis in one area bring crime or gangs but in another area there is none? and its actually lower and more safe? Because crime is a combination of placing them in unsafe low income neighborhoods and exclusion.

Maine has embraced Somalis and their neighborhoods they settled into were safer, so it shows. You can also find this in other places.

Do you know what is also is more perfect case to illustrate the exclusion factor being a reason behind this?

It is this experiment they ran in Denmark where they gave local voting rights and increased civic participation for non-western immigrants and it reduced their crime by a whooping 60%.

Democratic Involvement and Immigrants’ Compliance with the Law

https://docs.iza.org/dp10550.pdf

Summing up, so far we have found robust empirical evidence that the first possibility to
participate in local elections reduces the number of convictions for non-Western immi-
grants in Denmark.

For the full sample, the effect amounts to a reduction of roughly 60% in the number of convictions within the two years after the elections. This effect is sizable and comparable in magnitude to the one for the legalization of undocumented immigrants in the study of Pinotti (2017) for Italy.

 

[TekNiKo]

I was in Somalia at the start of the year,there are basically no jobs and if you are even qualified to get one good luck to all those clan members you will be infront of you,there’s no security you can easily be deleted for clan politics check that doctor who was killed in Galkacyo,so tell me why should any able bodied Somali live in hopelessness and fear

It costs thousands of dollars to tahriib to Europe surely the truly poor can’t afford this. Most of these people are middle class folks in Somalia enamoured by TikTok videos thinking life is easy and money grows on trees.


They then get addicted to drugs due to reality not meeting fantasy. Theres been many cases of random stabbings and youths on a drunken rage in Germany. Enough is enough.

 

[Idilinaa]

It costs thousands of dollars to tahriib to Europe surely the truly poor can’t afford this. Most of these people are middle class folks in Somalia enamoured by TikTok videos thinking life is easy and money grows on trees.


They then get addicted to drugs due to reality not meeting fantasy. Theres been many cases of random stabbings and youths on a drunken rage in Germany. Enough is enough.

They can't afford it, that's why they hold them at ransom. It's not just Somalis who tahrib, lots of north africans, east africans, middle eastern countries and southeast asians ones and even chinese.

Do you know how many Chinese tahriib to Europe and America in droves?

‘Disillusioned about China’, more Chinese aim for US via risky Darien Gap

In 2023, Chinese migrants become the largest group outside the Americas to cross the treacherous region to reach the US.

www.aljazeera.com

They all have one thing in common they are fleeing a terrible economic situation in their home country.

Why do you think Norwegians, Japanese and many other European nations mass migrated to America throughout the 1800s & early 1900s and it completely halted from the mid 1900s til today and none want to migrate there anymore?

Becomes their home countries economy developed and improved.

So improve the economic situation for them back home and provide them with opportunities and they will stay. Show them that there is something for them in their homeland with tangible stuff.

 

[JamalFarah]

I believe they most often conflate the rate of unemployment with welfare recipients. So i doubt it is 70%, much lower than that and they are not sending welfare money back to Somalia like the study i showed you , it doesn't leave room for extra to even do that as the people they have interviewed told them.

I have never said they are taboo topics that shouldn't be discussed and i have freely talked about Somalis in mainland Europe and how they face employment barriers which are listed below



I also talk about how the 2nd generation have a higher employment participation rate, nearing 70% or more.



Why do i bring up Maine and American Somalis in general and the 2nd generation? because they break the myth of Somalis not wanting to work and rely on welfare.

Figures for Somalis in Minnesota's largest county, they rely on less welfare than white americans.

Rochester, Minn. / Many Somalis getting off welfare

Abdifatah Abdinur spoke no English when his family immigrated here in 1995, but he can still remember how embarrassed he was at needing food stamps. “Somali men and women like to be independe…

www.twincities.com

Minnesota Somali statewide employment rates is similar to the rest as well


You can also add Australian Somalis to the list who have an employment rate of 62% which a percent chunk of this are in skilled managerial and professional occupations, closely corresponding the general population of 70%.


It has to do with the difference in labor market and the barriers to entry, not because they are lazy and don't want to work and rely on welfare, so they can send it back.


The problem i have with the welfare discourse, which i have discussed before. It's because it's used as poor bashing ethnic migrants and create false abuse and fraud narratives. They don't just do this to European Somalis, they do it to American Somalis and even Canadian Somalis.




The criminality part is also nonsensical. It is not linked to non-western immigration at all, the Maine case is perfect example to show this. Why would Somalis in one area bring crime or gangs but in another area there is none? and its actually lower and more safe? Because crime is a combination of placing them in unsafe low income neighborhoods and exclusion.

Maine has embraced Somalis and their neighborhoods they settled into were safer, so it shows. You can also find this in other places.

Do you know what is also is more perfect case to illustrate the exclusion factor being a reason behind this?

It is this experiment they ran in Denmark where they gave local voting rights and increased civic participation for non-western immigrants and it reduced their crime by a whooping 60%.

Democratic Involvement and Immigrants’ Compliance with the Law

https://docs.iza.org/dp10550.pdf

You're arguing against a straw man. My point is simple: most Somalis in Western Europe receive welfare, do not work, and much of the remittance sent back is welfare money. I’m specifically referencing Western Europe here. I’ve shown how labor alone can’t be the source of remittance due to high unemployment rates. Around 70% of Somalis in Western Europe receive some form of benefits, and even those who work often still rely on them because they’re part of the working poor.

Nowhere did I say that Somalis want welfare, and I agree with you that barriers to entering the workforce or starting a business are high.

I’m simply stating current facts without suggesting that Somalis are lazy or inferior; this pattern is seen across various non-Western migrant groups in Europe, including Algerians, Syrians, Moroccans, and Nigerians. These groups fare better in anglophone countries than in mainland Europe, indicating a distinct difference between integration outcomes in Europe and the English-speaking world. The rule following more collectivist germanic speaking world vs the individualist liberal minded anglo world.

Your points don’t refute or contradict what I’ve outlined. Both perspectives can coexist.

Comparing the U.S., Australia, and Canada to mainland Europe is also difficult due to stricter selection and screening policies, but that’s a separate issue.

The criminality argument is similarly based on socio-economic factors, not on cultural or racial differences, as you rightly noted. Yes, many non-Western migrants engage in criminal behavior, but this correlates with factors like household income and mental health issues, not inherent cultural traits. However, saying “criminality isn’t linked to non-Western immigration” is misleading. If a society of 100 people has five individuals with factors linked to criminal behavior, and 30 more people are introduced, 10 of whom have those factors, then non-Western immigration contributes to the increase of criminality.

 

[johnsepei5]

You're arguing against a straw man. My point is simple: most Somalis in Western Europe receive welfare, do not work, and much of the remittance sent back is welfare money. I’m specifically referencing Western Europe here. I’ve shown how labor alone can’t be the source of remittance due to high unemployment rates. Around 70% of Somalis in Western Europe receive some form of benefits, and even those who work often still rely on them because they’re part of the working poor.

Nowhere did I say that Somalis want welfare, and I agree with you that barriers to entering the workforce or starting a business are high.

I’m simply stating current facts without suggesting that Somalis are lazy or inferior; this pattern is seen across various non-Western migrant groups in Europe, including Algerians, Syrians, Moroccans, and Nigerians. These groups fare better in anglophone countries than in mainland Europe, indicating a distinct difference between integration outcomes in Europe and the English-speaking world. The rule following more collectivist germanic speaking world vs the individualist liberal minded anglo world.

Your points don’t refute or contradict what I’ve outlined. Both perspectives can coexist.

Comparing the U.S., Australia, and Canada to mainland Europe is also difficult due to stricter selection and screening policies, but that’s a separate issue.

The criminality argument is similarly based on socio-economic factors, not on cultural or racial differences, as you rightly noted. Yes, many non-Western migrants engage in criminal behavior, but this correlates with factors like household income and mental health issues, not inherent cultural traits. However, saying “criminality isn’t linked to non-Western immigration” is misleading. If a society of 100 people has five individuals with factors linked to criminal behavior, and 30 more people are introduced, 10 of whom have those factors, then non-Western immigration contributes to the increase of criminality.

English/Anglo is a Germanic language

 

[Idilinaa]

You're arguing against a straw man. My point is simple: most Somalis in Western Europe receive welfare, do not work, and much of the remittance sent back is welfare money. I’m specifically referencing Western Europe here. I’ve shown how labor alone can’t be the source of remittance due to high unemployment rates. Around 70% of Somalis in Western Europe receive some form of benefits, and even those who work often still rely on them because they’re part of the working poor.

Nowhere did I say that Somalis want welfare, and I agree with you that barriers to entering the workforce or starting a business are high.

I’m simply stating current facts without suggesting that Somalis are lazy or inferior; this pattern is seen across various non-Western migrant groups in Europe, including Algerians, Syrians, Moroccans, and Nigerians. These groups fare better in anglophone countries than in mainland Europe, indicating a distinct difference between integration outcomes in Europe and the English-speaking world. The rule following more collectivist germanic speaking world vs the individualist liberal minded anglo world.

Your points don’t refute or contradict what I’ve outlined. Both perspectives can coexist.

I think i did kinda straw man you , my apologies. I am so used to seeing people bring up welfare to bash immigrants, that i jumped to conclusions.

But my main point was to underscore that mainland European foreign born Somali migrants have employment barriers but it's not the same for 2nd generation, also for those in a more open , less restrictive labour market and for those who rely on welfare no matter if the figure is 30% or 70% they don't send that money to Somalia

The really don't have enough to send , they can hardly live on it

Controlled and dependent: experiences of living on social assistance in Sweden

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/record.jsf?pid=diva2%3A1639410&dswid=2771

Recipients reported that social assistance was generally sufficient for their basic material needs but allowed for no extras. It was possible to live on social assistance for a short time, but became difficult in the longer term

Comparing the U.S., Australia, and Canada to mainland Europe is also difficult due to stricter selection and screening policies, but that’s a separate issue.

Not sure about Australia but United States has a more hostile immigration process than Europe , but are better at welcoming and integrating immigrants

For Immigrants, America Is Still More Welcoming Than Europe​

For Immigrants, America Is Still More Welcoming Than Europe (Published 2015)

While its policies are often hostile, the United States is more successful than Europe at integrating immigrants into the national fabric.

www.nytimes.com

The criminality argument is similarly based on socio-economic factors, not on cultural or racial differences, as you rightly noted. Yes, many non-Western migrants engage in criminal behavior, but this correlates with factors like household income and mental health issues, not inherent cultural traits. However, saying “criminality isn’t linked to non-Western immigration” is misleading. If a society of 100 people has five individuals with factors linked to criminal behavior, and 30 more people are introduced, 10 of whom have those factors, then non-Western immigration contributes to the increase of criminality.

Because it is linked to how you receive and process those immigrants. , not the fact they are non-western in origin that just carry violent tendencies and crime on arrival.

That's what i was trying to explain by showing examples.

 

[_Yusuf_]

Somalias Präsident verspricht: „Ich nehme alle Migranten zurück!“

Kanzler Olaf Scholz hat heute den Präsidenten von Somalia, Hassan Sheikh Mohamud, empfangen. Der Gast verspricht, alle somalischen Migranten zurückzunehmen.

www.bild.de

In the midst of his traffic light crisis, Olaf Scholz (66, SPD) received a real crisis ruler in his chancellery today: the President of Somalia, Hassan Sheikh Mohamud (68). His country is considered a terrorist and pirate nest and a famine zone on the Horn of Africa, and German warships patrolled the coast for 14 years to protect merchant ships.

Sheikh Mohamud brought a promise:

▶︎ “I will take back every refugee from Somalia who does not have a residence permit here in Germany or who has not integrated here.”


Nah what is this

Exhibit A

 

[NidarNidar]

Somalias Präsident verspricht: „Ich nehme alle Migranten zurück!“

Kanzler Olaf Scholz hat heute den Präsidenten von Somalia, Hassan Sheikh Mohamud, empfangen. Der Gast verspricht, alle somalischen Migranten zurückzunehmen.

www.bild.de

In the midst of his traffic light crisis, Olaf Scholz (66, SPD) received a real crisis ruler in his chancellery today: the President of Somalia, Hassan Sheikh Mohamud (68). His country is considered a terrorist and pirate nest and a famine zone on the Horn of Africa, and German warships patrolled the coast for 14 years to protect merchant ships.

Sheikh Mohamud brought a promise:

▶︎ “I will take back every refugee from Somalia who does not have a residence permit here in Germany or who has not integrated here.”


Nah what is this

HSM right now.

I don't care, Mister Trump. Take back all Somalis to their count country. That's what they deserve. Mister Trump. I told you, Mister Trump, I agree with you

 

[Step a side]