Is mombasa found by the omanis or the southern Somali empire ?

[HabarSteven12]

Are garre reer samaale? They're the ones who first settled in lamu.

Yes they did ruled along with the natives in the in Lamu Archipelago in 17th century after defeating the persians princes of pate.
View attachment 305304

What clan did this Somali sheikh hail from? That passage could possibly refer to the Benadiri people since they have always inhabited and dominated the East African coast. In the past, Somalis would identify themselves by their respective clan. Somalia is an artificial colonial construct. Please state his qabil.

The Indian Ocean has been navigated by Arabs and Swahili long before the time of written records. Arab navigation began on the long sea routes centuries before the Christian era. The Arabs were the first known great navigators of the Indian Ocean; their mastery of it fell to the Romans and the Persians, and then reverted to the Muslim Arabs until the Portuguese rounded Africa and obtained command.

 

[HabarSteven12]

This is a lie. They only controlled Rapta. and that was not a colony until
.they (arab) they married the indigenous people and took their customs and language.View attachment 305268

source: Periplus of the Erythraean Sea Arabic version

You are deliberately being dishonest. Arabs controlled the coastal region of Azania, which stretched from Mogadishu all the way to Rhapta. Azania included Mogadishu, Marka, and Barawa and was subject to Amir Sharahbil Ya’fir ibn As’ad Abu Karib.

Read the Sharif Aidarus book detailing the strong Arab presence in coastal Somalia even before the birth of Prophet Isa's mother, Maryam (peace be upon her).

The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea refers to the Somali coast in Chapter 16. It's said, "The inhabitants of this coast, men of huge stature, are given to piracy; they live each in their own district, their own masters. In accordance with some ancient rights, this district is subject to the sovereignty of the state that becomes most powerful in Arabia, and so it is now ruled by the Mapharitic chieftain. From the king, it is held tributary by the people of Muza, who send there many ships with Arab captains and agents who enjoy the friendship of the natives, intermarry with them, and thus become familiar with the coast and its language." You would be debunking yourself by using the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

What clan did this Somali sheikh hail from? That passage could possibly refer to the Benadiri people since they have always inhabited and dominated the East African coast.

Kkk random hindi immigrants from trade didn’t dominate anything.

In the past, Somalis would identify themselves by their respective clan. Somalia is an artificial colonial construct. Please state his qabil.

Then why did many Somalis have the nisba Al-Somali from scholars to generals like Ahmed Girri Bin Hussein Al-Somali who fought in the Futuh? Somalia is not an artificial colonial construct.

The Indian Ocean has been navigated by Arabs and Swahili long before the time of written records. Arab navigation began on the long sea routes centuries before the Christian era. The Arabs were the first known great navigators of the Indian Ocean; their mastery of it fell to the Romans and the Persians, and then reverted to the Muslim Arabs until the Portuguese rounded Africa and obtained command.

Swahili Bantus didn’t even live on the coast until the 9-10th century CE, before that was southern Cushites. Arabs weren’t the first great navigators of the Indian Ocean, that would have to go to the Austronesians who colonized Madagascar from Indonesia or the Indians/Somalis who formed the first maritime trade routes of the Indian Ocean.

 

[Emir of Zayla]

You are deliberately being dishonest. Arabs controlled the coastal region of Azania, which stretched from Mogadishu all the way to Rhapta. Azania included Mogadishu, Marka, and Barawa and was subject to Amir Sharahbil Ya’fir ibn As’ad Abu Karib.

Azania only included the Swahili Coast south of Mogadishu which wasn’t populated by any Somalis at that time.

Read the Sharif Aidarus book detailing the strong Arab presence in coastal Somalia even before the birth of Prophet Isa's mother, Maryam (peace be upon her).

Give us a quote and pic of where in Sharif Aidarus’s book that he stated this?

The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea refers to the Somali coast in Chapter 16. It's said, "The inhabitants of this coast, men of huge stature, are given to piracy; they live each in their own district, their own masters. In accordance with some ancient rights, this district is subject to the sovereignty of the state that becomes most powerful in Arabia, and so it is now ruled by the Mapharitic chieftain. From the king, it is held tributary by the people of Muza, who send there many ships with Arab captains and agents who enjoy the friendship of the natives, intermarry with them, and thus become familiar with the coast and its language."

It’s been said and proven many times with sources on the forum that Azania is the modern day Swahili Coast, Somalis were never under the rule of the Sabaeans. You love to copy+paste this bs under every single post when you already know it’s been proven false.

 

[GALAN]

It did? It controlled up to Swakin and had Emirs who worked as administrators in Eritrea up to the Highlands before the Futuh.View attachment 305345

this was not Adal it was Harar sultanate.

 

[HabarSteven12]

Azania only included the Swahili Coast south of Mogadishu which wasn’t populated by any Somalis at that time.

Give us a quote and pic of where in Sharif Aidarus’s book that he stated this?

It’s been said and proven many times with sources on the forum that Azania is the modern day Swahili Coast, Somalis were never under the rule of the Sabaeans. You love to copy+paste this bs under every single post when you already know it’s been proven false.

Once again, you keep disregarding my sources. It's like I am speaking to a wall. How many times do I have to repeat myself for you to grasp my sources? Just admit it if you can't comprehend complex academic literature. To be honest, it isn't even complex. Azania was under Amir Amir Sharahbil Ya’fir ibn As’ad Abu Karib. You just blatantly disregarded my source showing the strong Arab presence on the East African coast.

In chapter 16 of The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, it literally demonstrates Arabs inhabiting the Somali coast and gives a detailed description of their culture and customs. You literally ignored it. Shame on you! I can't take you seriously if you keep disregarding my sources. You are demonstrating that you don't have the intellectual capacity or maturity to analyze historical sources with a critical eye.

Sharif Aidarus source:
بغية الآمال” written by the historian Sharif Aidarus.
سكان مقدشوه في القرن الأول قبل ميلاد عيسى ابن مريم عليهما السلام يذكر المؤرخون أن العرب هم أول من سكنوا مقدشوه وإن ألوان سكان هذه البلدة فيها - أسمر وفيها ما هو أشقر وأحمر، فإنهم من العرب الأقحاح الخلص) واستوطنت العرب فيها من وقت بعيد، يرجع تاريخهم إلى ما قبل الميلاد بمائة واثنين، وبالجملة فهم (العرب) قد دخلوا مقدشوه من نحو (٢٠٥٥) سنة. ما هو

السلطان أسعد الحميري.

قد حكم مقدشوه قوم التبابعة قبل الإسلام بثمانية قرون، وكان السلطان يكنى بأبي كرب، واسمه أسعد الحميري (حمير بكسر الحاء وسكون الميم . : هو

 

[Emir of Zayla]

this was not Adal it was Harar sultanate.

Did you even read what I posted?

 

[GALAN]

Did you even read what I posted?

yes I did it doesn't mention Adal only Gurey. Gurey was not the imam of Adal but Harar.

 

[ibrahym]

You are deliberately being dishonest. Arabs controlled the coastal region of Azania, which stretched from Mogadishu all the way to Rhapta. Azania included Mogadishu, Marka, and Barawa and was subject to Amir Sharahbil Ya’fir ibn As’ad Abu Karib.

Read the Sharif Aidarus book detailing the strong Arab presence in coastal Somalia even before the birth of Prophet Isa's mother, Maryam (peace be upon her).

This nonsense was written 1700 years after the fall of Himyar

The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea refers to the Somali coast in Chapter 16. It's said, "The inhabitants of this coast, men of huge stature, are given to piracy; they live each in their own district, their own masters. In accordance with some ancient rights, this district is subject to the sovereignty of the state that becomes most powerful in Arabia, and so it is now ruled by the Mapharitic chieftain. From the king, it is held tributary by the people of Muza, who send there many ships with Arab captains and agents who enjoy the friendship of the natives, intermarry with them, and thus become familiar with the coast and its language." You would be debunking yourself by using the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea.

You describe me dishonest, while you are dishonest. Chapter 16. refers to Rapta, not Mogadishu, and I already sent it to you.

 

[Himmler]

So logically we have more rights in Kenya and Tanzania then Morden citizens of Kenya and Tanzania?

No, the Cushites in SE Africa were mainly South Cushites, they have nothing to do with Somalis

 

[Somali_patriotic]

What clan did this Somali sheikh hail from? That passage could possibly refer to the Benadiri people since they have always inhabited and dominated the East African coast.

What in the copium, benadiri is a regional identity so those people who are local outside benadiri coast aren't benadiris.
The Somalis came from the mainland lamu archipelago opposite to siu island, Did your benadiris live there? Also you're referring to benadir gibil cads, which sadly were minority in the benadiri coast.
The Somalis defeated the nabahan (persians) and freed siu from their aggression so they ruled it along with locals of siu.

Disprove this with "Academic sources" you always brag about or just admit you're wrong and move on.

The Indian Ocean has been navigated by Arabs and Swahili long before the time of written records. Arab navigation began on the long sea routes centuries before the Christian era. The Arabs were the first known great navigators of the Indian Ocean; their mastery of it fell to the Romans and the Persians, and then reverted to the Muslim Arabs until the Portuguese rounded Africa and obtained command.

Haye how is that relevant tho? Should stick to the argument rather than waffling nonsense.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

What in the copium, benadiri is a regional identity so those people who are local outside benadiri coast aren't benadiris.
The Somalis came from the mainland lamu archipelago opposite to siu island, Did your benadiris live there? Also you're referring to benadir gibil cads, which sadly were minority in the benadiri coast.

In Xamar Gibil cad were the majority by around 60% as Italian census shows, while gibil madow being 40% . Gibil Madows of Xamar were in conferencies where smaller gibil madow reers were allied to gibil cad clans for example for bandhawow, Baxar Suufi are the biggest out of them and they're gibil cad , and there are 6 smaller gibil madow lineages that were allied to them. However in Moorsho and Dhabarweyne alliances, gibil madow were the majority.

As for Marka the gibil madows there were Shukureere, Juunji , Fasaxaale , Axmed nuur and Reer Xaaji and Reer Cumar of Reer Maanyo confederacy . The first three all moved into Awbaali after biimaal migration to south , and also they were minority in Marka and Jilib Marka.

Meanwhile in Barawa, the gibil madows were the ooji and urban tunnis ( not to be confused with other coastal tunnis that lived outside of Biruuni & Mpaayi)

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Established like the modern city? Idk who did that
What I'm saying is, they were the original settlers, if you agree then there's no further discussion.

According to the source they're called Famao, also should've worded it correctly
They're locals, the source says they're descendents of colonists so i assume their migration was recent.

Prove that garre's preceded the Early Arabs in Lamu

 

[Somali_patriotic]

In Xamar Gibil cad were the majority by around 60% as Italian census shows, while gibil madow being 40% . Gibil Madows of Xamar were in conferencies where smaller gibil madow reers were allied to gibil cad clans for example for bandhawow, Baxar Suufi are the biggest out of them and they're gibil cad , and there are 6 smaller gibil madow lineages that were allied to them. However in Moorsho and Dhabarweyne alliances, gibil madow were the majority.

As for Marka the gibil madows there were Shukureere, Juunji , Fasaxaale , Axmed nuur and Reer Xaaji and Reer Cumar of Reer Maanyo confederacy . The first three all moved into Awbaali after biimaal migration to south , and also they were minority in Marka and Jilib Marka.

Meanwhile in Barawa, the gibil madows were the ooji and urban tunnis ( not to be confused with other coastal tunnis that lived outside of Biruuni & Mpaayi)

According to the italian census gibil cad were the minority.

Gibil-Madow Benadiris

I saw recently that @Jacko made this post: Before Italians came to Mogadishu, it only consisted of 2 districts: Xamar Weyne (literally old Xamar) and Shangani, those neighbourhoods were almost entirely Benadiri or Arab. Italians planned and built the rest. Italian census for their...

www.somalispot.com

Prove that garre's preceded the Early Arabs in Lamu

When did the earliest arabs come?

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

According to the italian census gibil cad were the minority.

Gibil-Madow Benadiris

I saw recently that @Jacko made this post: Before Italians came to Mogadishu, it only consisted of 2 districts: Xamar Weyne (literally old Xamar) and Shangani, those neighbourhoods were almost entirely Benadiri or Arab. Italians planned and built the rest. Italian census for their...

www.somalispot.com

When did the earliest arabs come?

Actually, according to that same census gibil cads were majority by 60% , I've even explained it in detail before. You can read it here below;
https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...amic-burials-in-mogadishu.148549/post-3666502

 

[Somali_patriotic]

Actually, according to that same census gibil cads were majority by 60% , I've even explained it in detail before. You can read it here below;
https://www.somalispot.com/threads/...amic-burials-in-mogadishu.148549/post-3666502

Brother i don't think your thread disprove the one I've sent.
Majority of your thread was assuming 50/50 and posted a single page of the census
while @Shimbiris posted the page for everything he claimed out of the italian census.

 

[The alchemist]

reminds me of the Fertility and Phallic Statues in the North Somalia and Afar/Saho region

Those are from Southern Ethiopia. The megalithics are about 2000 years old.

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

Brother i don't think your thread disprove the one I've sent.
Majority of your thread was assuming 50/50 and posted a single page of the census
while @Shimbiris posted the page for everything he claimed out of the italian census.

The census was only one page, there was nothing else about it. And he didn't even mention the clans, the source he used has countless mistakes , it doesn't have the correct list of bandhawow clans, moorsho clans, Iskaashato clans , dhabarweyne clans , seddex geedi clans, yacquub clans or reer maanyo clans I broke everything down and mentioned each clan and family and whether they're gibil cad or madow.

 

[Somali_patriotic]

The census was only one page, there was nothing else about it. And he didn't even mention the clans, the source he used has countless mistakes , it doesn't have the correct list of bandhawow clans, moorsho clans, Iskaashato clans , dhabarweyne clans , seddex geedi clans, yacquub clans or reer maanyo clans I broke everything down and mentioned each clan and family and whether they're gibil cad or madow.

So you and he are using the same census. He provided evidence for every single qabiil he claimed was a gibil madow, while you were claiming clans called 'Gibil madow' as a confederacy, apparently with a majority of gibil cads. You also claimed that stand alone clans with a minority in some confederacy make up 50% of the latter confederacy.
How do you expect anyone to believe you?

Vast Majority of descriptions and historical drawings of the city shows they were the majority.
Could the 16th century Portuguese source be a reference for gibil cads and gibil madows?
When they said majority of the inhabitants are dark(gibil madow) and few are fair(gibil cad).

 

[Banadiri Warrior]

So you and he are using the same census. He provided evidence for every single qabiil he claimed was a gibil madow, while you were claiming clans called 'Gibil madow' as a confederacy, apparently with a majority of gibil cads. You also claimed that stand alone clans with a minority in some confederacy make up 50% of the latter confederacy.
How do you expect anyone to believe you?

He doesn't know the clans of all the alliances I listed them all, he was referring to whole alliances as if they're lineage qabiils, I don't see him naming the Bandhawow clans or Moorsho clans or Iskaashato clans or Dhabarweyne clans Or Saddex geedi clans or Yacquub clans or Reer maanyo clans.

I never claimed any minority be 50% . You're contradicting yourself by saying standalone clan. Any Banadiri Gibil Cad or Gibil Madow would agree with what I said.

Vast Majority of descriptions and historical drawings of the city shows they were the majority.
Could the 16th century Portuguese source be a reference for gibil cads and gibil madows?
When they said majority of the inhabitants are dark(gibil madow) and few are fair(gibil cad).

No they don't, how would historical drawings show that when drawings show more stone buildings with Arab and Persian architecture than huts that gibil madows mostly resided in. 16th century none of the gibil madow from samaale qabiils existed , the earliest of them would be the silcis ones who came to the coast after their rule over their sultanate in the lama jiidle fell , majority of them count between 5-15 names to their progenitor that settled on the coast. You'll even see that most of them are named after their first progenitor that came from the interior to the coast like Reer Amiin Khalafow, Reer Oontirow, Reer Maxamud Jibril etc