Saudi Arabia celebrates first Halloween

[World]

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Same here, I learned about this in 2016-2017 which is when i disavowed this movement and their beliefs. and yes, you would be seen as one if you didn’t make takfir on them.

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This is what he said:

"And I inform you about myself - I swear by Allah whom there is none worthy to worship except Him - I have sought knowledge and those who knew me believed that I had knowledge while I did not know the meaning of La Ilaha illa Allah at that time and did not know the religion of Islam before this grace that Allah favored. As well as my teachers (Mashayikh) no one among them knew that. And if someone from the scholars of al-'Aridh (the lands of Najd and surrounding areas) claims that he knew the meaning of La Ilaha illa Allah or knew the meaning of Islam before this time, or claims on behalf of his teachers that someone from them knew that, then he has lied and said falsehood and deceived the people and praised himself with something he does not possess."

Source: al-Rasa`il al-Shakhsiyyah and al-Durar al-Saniyyah 10/51

He is saying that even his own teachers like his father that was a Hanbali Athari scholar did not even know the meaning of tawhid, and that nobody before him knew islam. Every scholar did not know Islam except him. What a lunatic, no wonder why he’s own brother Sulayman that was an Athari Hanbali scholar was his biggest opponent and critic.

 

[Geedi Ladane]

This isn’t true, The Wahhabis said clearly that the people of Makkah and Ottomans who ruled Makkah were kuffar. If you did not make takfir on them as well, you’re a kafir too. Equivalent to Al Shabab saying The Somali government is kuffar and the people of Xamar are kuffar, and if you do not make takfir on them then you’re a kafir as well.

"The second issue: To disbelieve in that which is worshipped instead of Allah, and this means to make Takfir (declare as disbelievers) upon the polytheists (Mushrikin) and the disavowal from them and that which they worship alongside Allah.
So whoever does not make Takfir upon the polytheists of the turkish state and the grave-worshippers like the people of Makkah and [upon] others from those who worship the righteous (Salihin) and left the Tawhid (monotheism) of Allah for Shirk (polytheism) and exchanged the Sunnah of his Messenger - sallalalhu 'alayhi wa sallam - with innovations, then he is a disbeliever like them even if dislikes their religion und hates them and loves Islam and its people.
This is so because the one who does not declare the polytheists to be disbelievers has not accepted the Qur`an. The Qur`an declares the polytheists as disbelievers, and commands to declare them as such and to show enmity towards them and to fight them."

Source: al-Durar al-Saniyya 9/291

What does it mean for the people of Makkah to be kuffar? it means their blood is halal and they can be killed.

Ibn Bishr said while speaking about the incidents of the year 1220 AH:

وفي هذه السنة اشتد الغلاء والقحط على الناس ... وأما مكة فالأمر فيها أعظم مما ذكرنا بسبب الحرب والحصار وقطع الميرة والسابلة , وذلك حيث انتقض الصلح بين غالب وبين سعود , فسدّت الطرق كلّها عن مكة من جهة اليمن وتهامة والحجاز ونجد , لأنهم كلهم رعية سعود وتحت أمره , فثبت عندنا وتواتر أن كيلة الأرز والحب بلغت في مكة ستة أريل , وكيلتهم أنقص من صاع نجد , وبيع فيها لحوم الحمير والجيف بيعت فيها بأغلى الأثمان ، وأكلت الكلاب ، وبلغ رطل الدهن ريالين , ومات خلق كثير منهم جوعاً

Source: 'Unwan al-Majd 1/284-258

It's mentioned that there was a drought in that year. What did the Wahhabiyyah do in this situation against the people of Makkah?
They made an embargo against them so that nothing could enter the city from the direction of Yemen, Tihamah, Hijaz and Najd (because all of these regions were already under Wahhabi occupation), which made the situation in Makkah even more serious. The people had even started eating the meat of dogs and Ibn Bishr says that many people [in Makkah] died from hunger.

This is why Al Shabab use bombings on the people of Xamar like the one from yesterday, because they get justification from MIAW and the original Wahhabi movement. How do we defeat Al Shabab when the father of terrorism is being taught by Saudi sponsored Sheikhs in Somalia?

This isn’t true, The Wahhabis said clearly that the people of Makkah and Ottomans who ruled Makkah were kuffar. If you did not make takfir on them as well, you’re a kafir too. Equivalent to Al Shabab saying The Somali government is kuffar and the people of Xamar are kuffar, and if you do not make takfir on them then you’re a kafir as well.

"The second issue: To disbelieve in that which is worshipped instead of Allah, and this means to make Takfir (declare as disbelievers) upon the polytheists (Mushrikin) and the disavowal from them and that which they worship alongside Allah.
So whoever does not make Takfir upon the polytheists of the turkish state and the grave-worshippers like the people of Makkah and [upon] others from those who worship the righteous (Salihin) and left the Tawhid (monotheism) of Allah for Shirk (polytheism) and exchanged the Sunnah of his Messenger - sallalalhu 'alayhi wa sallam - with innovations, then he is a disbeliever like them even if dislikes their religion und hates them and loves Islam and its people.
This is so because the one who does not declare the polytheists to be disbelievers has not accepted the Qur`an. The Qur`an declares the polytheists as disbelievers, and commands to declare them as such and to show enmity towards them and to fight them."

Source: al-Durar al-Saniyya 9/291

What does it mean for the people of Makkah to be kuffar? it means their blood is halal and they can be killed.

Ibn Bishr said while speaking about the incidents of the year 1220 AH:

وفي هذه السنة اشتد الغلاء والقحط على الناس ... وأما مكة فالأمر فيها أعظم مما ذكرنا بسبب الحرب والحصار وقطع الميرة والسابلة , وذلك حيث انتقض الصلح بين غالب وبين سعود , فسدّت الطرق كلّها عن مكة من جهة اليمن وتهامة والحجاز ونجد , لأنهم كلهم رعية سعود وتحت أمره , فثبت عندنا وتواتر أن كيلة الأرز والحب بلغت في مكة ستة أريل , وكيلتهم أنقص من صاع نجد , وبيع فيها لحوم الحمير والجيف بيعت فيها بأغلى الأثمان ، وأكلت الكلاب ، وبلغ رطل الدهن ريالين , ومات خلق كثير منهم جوعاً

Source: 'Unwan al-Majd 1/284-258

It's mentioned that there was a drought in that year. What did the Wahhabiyyah do in this situation against the people of Makkah?
They made an embargo against them so that nothing could enter the city from the direction of Yemen, Tihamah, Hijaz and Najd (because all of these regions were already under Wahhabi occupation), which made the situation in Makkah even more serious. The people had even started eating the meat of dogs and Ibn Bishr says that many people [in Makkah] died from hunger.

This is why Al Shabab use bombings on the people of Xamar like the one from yesterday, because they get justification from MIAW and the original Wahhabi movement. How do we defeat Al Shabab when the father of terrorism is being taught by Saudi sponsored Sheikhs in Somalia?

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[Hamzza]

This isn’t true, The Wahhabis said clearly that the people of Makkah and Ottomans who ruled Makkah were kuffar. If you did not make takfir on them as well, you’re a kafir too. Equivalent to Al Shabab saying The Somali government is kuffar and the people of Xamar are kuffar, and if you do not make takfir on them then you’re a kafir as well.

"The second issue: To disbelieve in that which is worshipped instead of Allah, and this means to make Takfir (declare as disbelievers) upon the polytheists (Mushrikin) and the disavowal from them and that which they worship alongside Allah.
So whoever does not make Takfir upon the polytheists of the turkish state and the grave-worshippers like the people of Makkah and [upon] others from those who worship the righteous (Salihin) and left the Tawhid (monotheism) of Allah for Shirk (polytheism) and exchanged the Sunnah of his Messenger - sallalalhu 'alayhi wa sallam - with innovations, then he is a disbeliever like them even if dislikes their religion und hates them and loves Islam and its people.
This is so because the one who does not declare the polytheists to be disbelievers has not accepted the Qur`an. The Qur`an declares the polytheists as disbelievers, and commands to declare them as such and to show enmity towards them and to fight them."

Source: al-Durar al-Saniyya 9/291

What does it mean for the people of Makkah to be kuffar? it means their blood is halal and they can be killed.

Ibn Bishr said while speaking about the incidents of the year 1220 AH:

وفي هذه السنة اشتد الغلاء والقحط على الناس ... وأما مكة فالأمر فيها أعظم مما ذكرنا بسبب الحرب والحصار وقطع الميرة والسابلة , وذلك حيث انتقض الصلح بين غالب وبين سعود , فسدّت الطرق كلّها عن مكة من جهة اليمن وتهامة والحجاز ونجد , لأنهم كلهم رعية سعود وتحت أمره , فثبت عندنا وتواتر أن كيلة الأرز والحب بلغت في مكة ستة أريل , وكيلتهم أنقص من صاع نجد , وبيع فيها لحوم الحمير والجيف بيعت فيها بأغلى الأثمان ، وأكلت الكلاب ، وبلغ رطل الدهن ريالين , ومات خلق كثير منهم جوعاً

Source: 'Unwan al-Majd 1/284-258

It's mentioned that there was a drought in that year. What did the Wahhabiyyah do in this situation against the people of Makkah?
They made an embargo against them so that nothing could enter the city from the direction of Yemen, Tihamah, Hijaz and Najd (because all of these regions were already under Wahhabi occupation), which made the situation in Makkah even more serious. The people had even started eating the meat of dogs and Ibn Bishr says that many people [in Makkah] died from hunger.

This is why Al Shabab use bombings on the people of Xamar like the one from yesterday, because they get justification from MIAW and the original Wahhabi movement. How do we defeat Al Shabab when the father of terrorism is being taught by Saudi sponsored Sheikhs in Somalia?

It seems you changed the topic from criticizing Sheikh Mohammed Ibn Abdul Wahhab to condemning the actions of the first Saudi state.

It's well known that the Wahabbis and Ottomans exchanged mutual Takfeer of each other's, so I don't know why you are blaming the action of Takfeer on one side.
It's also well known if you are familiar with the history of the Arabian peninsula that the Shariif of Makka(vassal of the Ottomans) was the aggressor and the first to initiate warfare with the Saudis.

 

[World]

It's well known that the Wahabbis and Ottomans exchanged mutual Takfeer of each other's, so I don't know why you are blaming the action of Takfeer on one side.

I’m not sure if you can even read what i posted or if you are just too much of a follower to care. Wahhabis didn’t just make takfir of Ottomans and the people of Makkah, they said if YOU don’t make takfir of them them, then you’re a kafir as well. You just don’t care, do you?

 

[GemState]

inspired kulaha, he was just like Al Shabab and slaughtered muslims from yemen to iraq and declared them to be kuffar. Nobody followed his ideology and he was destroyed by the caliphate and went into irrelevance until the British turned against the hashemites that ruled hijaz leading to al saud to take power and for them to bring back and spread his irrelevant khawarij ideology. Until his beliefs are destroyed, the Muslim world won’t be free from terrorism.

It is probably too late, the damage has been done. We are past the worst (ISIS/Al-Qaeda), but Muslims will be much, much more conservative going forward. Pluralistic forms of Islam will be wiped out.

What I will say is that do you think an Islamic revival would have been possible without Saudi Arabia and Petro-Islam? Let's not forget, Muslims globally were much far, far religious in the 60s/70s than now. Turkey, Indonesia, Central Asia, Tunisia, Albania, etc used to ban the hijab and harass women if they wore it.

 

[Hamzza]

And I inform you about myself - I swear by Allah whom there is none worthy to worship except Him - I have sought knowledge and those who knew me believed that I had knowledge while I did not know the meaning of La Ilaha illa Allah at that time and did not know the religion of Islam before this grace that Allah favored. As well as my teachers (Mashayikh) no one among them knew that. And if someone from the scholars of al-'Aridh (the lands of Najd and surrounding areas) claims that he knew the meaning of La Ilaha illa Allah or knew the meaning of Islam before this time, or claims on behalf of his teachers that someone from them knew that, then he has lied and said falsehood and deceived the people and praised himself with something he does not possess."

Alot of people cite this statement of Sheikh MIAW.

Context is key in circumstances like this. You have to read what appears before a paragraph or what comes after it. Even after that, look at the historical context and condition in which this information is being relayed. Why did the writer say this? Who was he referring to? What else did he say in other places in respects to this issue? All of this must be examined.

Speaking from an academic point of view, drawing ones own conclusion from such a citation is a failure.

 

[Hamzza]

I’m not sure if you can even read what i posted or if you are just too much of a follower to care. Wahhabis didn’t just make takfir of Ottomans and the people of Makkah, they said if YOU don’t make takfir of them them, then you’re a kafir as well. You just don’t care, do you?

They were in a state of war and their statement was referring to the people living under Wahabbi rule. You don't want enemy sympathizers behind your back.

 

[World]

They were in a state of war and their statement was referring to the people living under Wahabbi rule. You don't want enemy sympathizers behind your back.

Like the people of Najd, who supported Wahhabis and followed their beliefs, but decided they were against killing Muslims so the entire city were declared to Non Muslims by MIAW. They are enemy sympathisers who should be killed, correct?

Source: Mufid al-Mustafid fi Kufri Tarik al-Tawhid by Muhammad bin 'Abd al-Wahhab.

Not surprised you support those beliefs, never seen you condemn Al Shabab bombings, i mean they’re in a state of war i guess.

 

[World]

Alot of people cite this statement of Sheikh MIAW.

Context is key in circumstances like this. You have to read what appears before a paragraph or what comes after it. Even after that, look at the historical context and condition in which this information is being relayed. Why did the writer say this? Who was he referring to? What else did he say in other places in respects to this issue? All of this must be examined.

Speaking from an academic point of view, drawing ones own conclusion from such a citation is a failure.

His view was simple, before him Makkah and Madinah were worshipping idols and did not know tawhid. The scholars of madinah and makkah did not know tawhid. they were all polytheists until he came along and somehow learnt the true meaning of tawhid despite his teachers also not knowing it.

 

[Geedi Ladane]

His view was simple, before him Makkah and Madinah were worshipping idols and did not know tawhid. The scholars of madinah and makkah did not know tawhid. they were all polytheists until he came along and somehow learnt the true meaning of tawhid despite his teachers also not knowing it

His quotes clarifying his stance on the muslims^

 

[Geedi Ladane]

quotes regarding his stance on the Muslims and scholars that came before him

 

[AMusee]

 

[AMusee]

 

[Hamzza]

Like the people of Najd, who supported Wahhabis and followed their beliefs, but decided they were against killing Muslims so the entire city were declared to Non Muslims by MIAW. They are enemy sympathisers who should be killed, correct?

Source: Mufid al-Mustafid fi Kufri Tarik al-Tawhid by Muhammad bin 'Abd al-Wahhab.

Not surprised you support those beliefs, never seen you condemn Al Shabab bombings, i mean they’re in a state of war i guess.

You are deliberately mixing things up and constantly changing goal posts. Nothing fruitful will come from this discussion, I'll end it here.


Salaama

 

[Omar del Sur]

@Omar del Sur what's going on?

Yes, I knew someone would tag me. A leaf blows in Saudi and someone tags me.

The absurdity is... some young people in Saudi do Halloween and this reflects on me because I believe in Salafiyyah?

Meanwhile Salafis are staunchly opposed to Halloween. Salafis are even opposed to Saudi national day.

Salafiyyah and Saudi are not identical, just like Sufism and Turkey are not identical. If you're refuting Sufism, you can't just say "did you know such-and-such Turkish person did such-and-such". You can't even say "such-and-such Ottoman sultan did such-and-such". You have to say something like "Ibn Arabi said such-and-such" or "Rumi said such-and-such".

These young people are obviously wrong. But this has nothing to do with me. If you're a Sufi, that doesn't mean you have to support everything that ever happened under the Ottomans. I believe in Salafiyyah but that doesn't mean I support whatever goes on in Saudi.

And the picture people paint of Salafis is... I think it is silly. If you're a Salafi, you do things like studying Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah. You're not even necessarily paying attention to whatever is going on in Saudi.

I don't pay all that much attention to Saudi and I'm not interested in badmouthing Saudi just like I'm not interested in badmouthing Muslim countries in general. I say what I want and choose for myself what issues I take interest in. Honestly I'm paying a lot more attention to the elections in Brazil than whatever is going on in Saudi at the moment.

 

[Omar del Sur]

Can someone define Wahhabism please?

I find it very odd people would attack Sheikh Muhammad ibn AbdulWahhab who during his time shirk was extremely prominent and wrote some of the best books using the Quran and Sunnah to call people to Islam. Kitab at taweed, qawaaid al arba.

Conflating sins committed by the royal family and Saudi government. Has nothing to do with Sheikh Abdul Wahhab. Can someone actually show things written by him that go against the Quran and Sunnah , where we could say this person isn’t a scholar of Islam.

Calling a Muslim a Wahhabi for warning against shirk, Biddah and sin who follows the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad is just someone who is extremely ignorant in the deen.

This debate been going on here for a long time.

The logic of the super anti-Saudi anti-Salafi people is retarded:

"look! someone drank a beer in Saudi Arabia! Checkmate, Wahhabis!"


Omar del Sur: *studying Arabic, quietly frothing at the mouth about something to do with Latin American politics, paying zero attention to celebrity gossip*

anti-"Wahhabi": "@Omar del Sur look! here's the latest celebrity gossip column on the Saudi royals! wow! looks like Ibn Taymiyyah was wrong about everything and we all have to pray to saints and celebrate mawlid now!"

edit:

ok and then you have the slightly more sophisticated version:

"Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab was the daesh of his time! *insert quote from Ad-Durar As-Sanniyyah about making takfir of Turkish state*"

ok. I'm not an expert on what went on in terms of the history of that time and place. but even if you could prove Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab ate babies- does that mean we should celebrate mawlid and pray to saints? what exactly would that even change? it would be a bit of history. Salafiyyah existed before and after him.

if the anti-Salafis are serious, what they need to do is articulate certain doctrines that pretty much all Salafis agree on- and then show how those doctrines are false and explain the correct doctrine with proof. but in reality, because Salafiyyah is the correct minhaj, the anti-Salafis are in a position of weakness and so this is why they waste peoples' time with lame arguments that don't even disprove Salafiyyah.

 

[Haragwafi]

Leave ahlul sunnah out of y’alls ideology

You're jaahil since you don't know what sunnah is

 

[Haragwafi]

In my opinion, MIAW is more extreme than Al Shabab. The former made takfir on an entire city (Najd) and made the blood of them all halal, because they didn’t want to be part of his movement anymore and we’re against killing Muslims. That would be equivalent to Al Shabab saying everyone in Jowhar is a mushrik. He wrote a book justifying it.

Source: Mufid al-Mustafid fi Kufri Tarik al-Tawhid by Muhammad bin 'Abd al-Wahhab.

It’s you who is misinformed.

When Imam Abdul Wahab returned to his hometown uyayna after finishing his studied under various scholars in hijaz most notable under ibn Ibrahim al Sindhi who's a major influence to the imam in aqeeda , he preached to the people in town to return the right path and end bid'ah practices of visiting graves in that he got the support of the local ruler and got more followers in Nejd in which the local authorities and religious leaders in fear of losing their influence takfired the Imam and pressured the local ruler of uyayna to exile the imam and his followers from the town which they did only to get welcomed by the only Nejdi ruler Imam Muhammed ibn Saud who wasn't afraid to adopt the manhaj of Salaf the right path of Islam and by Allah's will his rule reached most of Arabian peninsula and ending the bid'ah practice in the region.

The Imam and his followers never taakfired anyone when he preached to the people to follow the sunnah of Muhammed صلى الله و عليه و سلم it was the Ahlu Bid'ah clerics who taakfired the Imam when they saw their ways getting unpopular among the common folk who got interested in the religion and learning the the sunnah of the Mustafa عليه افضل السلام the aqeeda of their forebears used to follow before the jaahal took over the region.

Even if Imam Abdul Wahab didn't come the manhaj of the salaf the Sunnah would have taken over the ummah against the bid'ah as the sayings of our prophet the salaf scholars and the holy Quran are available for any Muslim to read.

 

[repo]

Wahabbi Saudis have exported their violent idealogy too Somalia as today’s explosions in our nation is a perfect example of why Arab influence is detrimental too our nation.

Today they are enjoying Halloween parades while third world countries like Yemen, Somalia and Libya suffer immensely from terrorism

They are going to enjoy good holidays. I would not be surprised if they add Thanksgiving as well for solidarity.

Meanwhile they are handing out plastic AKs on Eid in Somalia.

 

[Haragwafi]

Khawarij aren’t khawarij for nothing. Turn back to allah swt! You who calls him a jaahil, needs ought to look in thy mirror! Thy reflection will be most unpleasant!

You're seriously a jaahil since you don't know what khwaraj is. the khwaraj still exist to this day and they're mostly in Oman where it's the state religion but your uneducated mindset think khwaraj must be anyone who has extremist ideology, learn the deen first before commenting on it.