Steamdevolopment
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The need for Somaliweyn, through the case of Jordan
- Thread starter horumar
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Stop mocking my achievements
Stop being RacistHave you been living under a rock? Nigga aspires to be like the bantus....
You have low standards...
SOMALI GENERAL
VIP
I'm just stating facts. How about you stop looking down at your own people & defending ajnabis that could care less about you...
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for Somalilanders who believe in the union
can you explain to me why somaliwayn never worked in 1960-1991? I am not talking about the failing of getting the regions in kenya and Ethiopia back?
- back then you can say there was somaliwayn nationalism so why.
I would like to particularly hear @jugjugwacwac
secondly- why do isaaq make emotional decisions. Everyone else works for their own interests so why is it that isaaq make emotional decisions rather then rational decisions that benefit them?
-I believe the emotional isaaq rushed into a union without thinking about anything else purely for somalinimo, few months within the said union they saw everyone else working for their own interest rather then the national interest and bam
kkkk I mean even SNM got screwed over by USC when it came to power sharing
Well Somaliwayn didn't work because clan comes before nation for Somalis. It still does. The only reason the Somalia Republic fell apart and Somaliland or Puntland haven't is because Ethiopia armed and financed the rebels in the former case but haven't done so in the latter. It was in their interest to support SNM, SSDF and USC in order to neutralize the threat from a strong and unified Somalia, but it's not in their interest to destabilize their client states of Somaliland and Puntland. The only reason the Gadabuursi and the Dhulbahante have accepted the status quo in Somaliland is because Suldaan Wabar's rebellion and Khaatumo state haven't received the kind of support from Ethiopia that the rebel groups in the 80's did.
The point is, Somaliland and Puntland don't work because of Some goodwill and somalinimo, they work because the Isaaq and the Majeerteen are powerful enough to keep the other clans in line.
As for Isaaqs being emotional you r spot on. I always get amazed at how naive, gullible and politically unsophisticated ISaaqs are. They know nothing of realpolitik. They can't see the bigger picture nor seize opportunities right in front of them. They should just leave the politics to the other clans and stick to upholding Somali dhaqan (suugaan, xeer etc), because that's where they excel.
waraabe
Your superior
No I mean from 1960, where did it go wrong? As you know that was when the union was formed and so why? It quickly became clan oriented and favoured koonfur (due to Isaaq naivety) which is why Isaaq cry about hawiye and darod getting the important posts. This led to Isaaq declaring Somaliland in 1991 after getting screwed again by usc . If (as you want) another union is formed those same issues will arise won't they?
-people work for their own interests, today hawiye elites are against peace in their regions because hawiye has never been richer then they are now.
My point is to put it short, it is about your interests today not some naive kumbaya project where we all hold hands tickle each other with feathers. Somaliland Is the interest of Isaaq like Djibouti independence is in the interest of ciise.
The comparison is that both you and horumar are girls, while everyone thinks you are men.
Steamdevolopment
VIP
There was no conspiracy against ISaaq. It's just that the Southern politicians weren't idealistic believers in Somaliwayn like the ISaaq politicans were. The Southerners were concerned with getting important positions for their respective clans, no different than what we see today in Somalia, while the Isaaqs were concerned with shanta Soomaaliyeed. They were naive no doubt and were burned badly. Things got better for the ISaaq under Siyaad, who gave them important posts, but it seems they could never shake the feeling of being marginalized. When the USC unilaterally declared a government in the south in 1991 without informing the SNM, that was the final nail in the coffin. So now Isaaqs have done a 180 and don't want a union, because they'd rather have their own country like the Ciise's in djibouti than risk being sidelined in a union.
Mudug-Madman
Gaalkacyo Gangster
The irony.....
waraabe
Your superior
I agree with you that there is no conspiracy against Isaaq however it means this, if clan A is working for clan A's interest and clan B is working for clan B's interest why should clan C be expected to work for some collective interest? What happened is now clan C is simply working for its interest. There is no collective interests and today if another union was formed it would end in failure because clan interest outweighs national interest.
So any Isaaq who is against Somaliland is simply against his own interest.
And that is what people need to remember, rationality rather than emotion
@Prince Abubu has realised this.
SomaliWadaniSoldier
Weeping for the Nation of 68
10 minutes later he will say "Somaliland Republic must expell Koonfurians".
I agree with you. That's why I want a nationalist party that rules with an iron fist to take power, preventing any clan from working towards its own interests. Any interests at odds or detrimental to the interests of Somalia as a whole would be deem illegal and severely punished.
This whole democracy and federalism bullshit is a complete joke and can never lead to nationalism. And that's exactly why the powers that be are pushing it.
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Inquisitive_
VIP
It's amazing how Ethiopia/Kenya both have active programs against Somaliweyn which they not only fear immensely but is the prime reason as to why they will forever continue to destabilise Somalia, yet the ignoramus defeatist Somali's consider this 'idealism'.
The choices here are very simple, further balkanization to the point of none-existence or continued Kikuye Tigray hegemony over us, those are the choices, until people begin to take up this ideology upon masses and exercise their independence in thought free from the tin-pot vulture demagogue corrupt politician's, we will remain in this servile servitude.
The choices here are very simple, further balkanization to the point of none-existence or continued Kikuye Tigray hegemony over us, those are the choices, until people begin to take up this ideology upon masses and exercise their independence in thought free from the tin-pot vulture demagogue corrupt politician's, we will remain in this servile servitude.
Inquisitive_
VIP
The problem with the likes of @waraabe is the staunch belief in the utterly false premise that these supposed politician work for their 'clan interests' which they absolutely don't and neither give a shit about, the country would have looked completely different if they did care.
The last 30 years is enough proof for this, all the little work and heavy lifting are done by independent grass root movements free from the politicians whom sometimes shamelessly take credit for it.
I agree with all you said except the reasons why Puntland/Somaliland are relatively stable (former rapidly changing), it has very little do with clan, it's stable because Ethiopia wants it that way and it only wants it that way because they have been extremely loyal.
They didn't fund Khaatumo/Gaderbise rebels and various other groups which they do in Koonfur, hell they even funded the warlords and the reason they do this is because Koonfur presents a threat to them, it's why they have soldiers stationed their to physically force their hegemony.
Had Ethiopia wanted, both Puntland/Somaliland would be in utter chaos simply by arming/funding those groups (and if it doesn't work like Koonfur move their troops their as a last resort) to think otherwise shows great naivety.
Absolutely, ur spot on as usual. And yes, of course Puntland and Somaliland are stable because Ethiopia wants it that way. I don't see how we are disagreeing there.
China Russia iran Egypt.
In one of my posts above I said many of the Southern politicains didn't care about Somaliwayn like the nothern politicians did. I am not talking about the people here, just the politicians. Here is Maxamed Xaaji Ibraahin Ciqaal talking about his experiences in Xamar right before the Union and how the southern politicians viewed the whole thing.
I just wanted to make that clarification, because I didn't want people to think I was saying Southern Somalis didn't care about Somaliwayn, when in fact they did.
I just wanted to make that clarification, because I didn't want people to think I was saying Southern Somalis didn't care about Somaliwayn, when in fact they did.
Exactly.
waraabe
Your superior
do you agree southern politicans were never serious or cared about pan somalism in the 1960 union compared to waqooyis?
its simple sxb, Ethiopia doesn't want SL to unite because that is the centre for pan somalism. a revolution in xamar doesn't matter to Ethiopia compared to one in Hargeisa because the one in Hargeisa will simply lead to their demise. That is why Ethiopia uses both soft power and hard power. they support khatumo but not to the extent where it can threaten SL, khatumo leaders all hiding inside Ethiopia and khatumo chose addis ababa for the khatumo SL talks which shows that Ethiopia has a hand in them like the wabar guy who is also a Ethiopia resident. For Ethiopia they know the epi centre of somalimo and their biggest threat is Somaliland which is why they are deploying both soft power and hard power and keeping it in limbo. also you still have clan issues while a waqooyi man like @jugjugwacwac is willing to throw the interest of his clan under the bus for the greater good - Ethiopia finds that more threatening then anything else
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