Tribal elder advises the father of Luul to forgive her killer and give him another wife.

[Dooyo]

Nah, she said google is free and then called me a feminist. If she’s serious about the deen, she would have googled it herself instead of saying nonsense with her chest. Also what woman seriously believes she can be r-worded and chopped up and a man get away with it by someone else paying Diya on his behalf? Does such a woman even have an ounce of self perseverance and the fact that she was quick to call me a ‘feminist’ for correcting her tells me everything I need to know.

I think she actually might be partially right.

It seems like it all depends on the Islamic courts ruling, there's scenarios where a perpetrator might not be killed and could instead receive the following combos instead
-100 lashes (hadd of zina/unmarried) and diyya/dowry payment
-banished from the land (hadd of Hirabah) and diyya payment
-hands and legs chopped (hadd of Hirabah) and diyya payment
- or just hadd of zina

https://islamcompass.com/punishment-for-rape-in-islamic-law/

 

[Idilinaa]

The payed off Diyah is mostly common in rural nomadic areas, you can neither jail (There are no jail cells in Miiyi) or execute someone for a crime( in fear of retaliation). You pay a hefty fine as a punishment and are made to reconcile to prevent further violence.

Historically in Somalia the cities/states ,agricultural villages and coastal towns connected to sultanates people were either executed, put to trail (even trail by fire) and jailed.

During the two administrations after independence it was handled with severe punishment, policing and rape/killings were extremely rare as a consequence.

Same during the brief Islamic Courts Union era, where justice were mandated by non-clanal courts and parroling police units funded by business men.

It's important to understand this because the current situation in Somalia described by @Hodan from HR and @Angelina is deeply connected to collapse of the central state, which has been replaced with weak corrupt clan federalism, that was imposed on Somalis from the outside.

So people as a consequence have turned to the private sector for employment & basic services(93% of the jobs) not the public sector(government) which is riddled with nepotism & discrimination and to their local clan leaders for justice and law because they don't trust the corrupt state.

When historically Clan elders were outside of politics concerned with rural welfare, and acted as mediators and they were subject to and regulated by a over-arching non-clanal state actors and Sheikhs.

I encourage you all to read this to get an accurate understanding of the distortion of their role:

The Impact of the Role of Traditional Leaders on Politico-Governance in Somalia: Present Realities and Past Reflections​

Today’s traditional office holders cannot functionally be equated to the pre-colonial or even pre 1980 traditional entities. The main difference is that the former was free from political patronage and was mainly making decisions on behalf of the people, but the latter works under political benefaction so it does not make the main decisions. Political patronage and office distortion have been practiced since the colonial era, and it was also used in the 1980s, but it has become out of control during the Civil War era. Most of the clan chiefs, within various levels, have become clients of corrupt politicians.

As a result, there are uncountable and mostly uncontrollable clan chiefs in the country today. Most of them don’t have the power they usually claim on their community. Another new common aspect among the incumbents is that almost all of them live in the cities and involve politics rather than developmental issues. The practice has deeply affected and corrupted these traditional institutions.

Admittedly, they are consumed by covering the failures of political leadership. They are allowed to deal with daily incidents instead of dealing with social developmental issues. They are dried out by doing police, municipal court, judiciary, and even parliamentary job. But still, they don’t mind to keep that problem on their shoulders. In that situation, they may help, but they cannot be a base for the process of building a modern state. And it’s difficult to expect from them that they can fully discern all dimensions of reconciliation requirements. It seems that they are losing their role to other sides

One of the recommendations:

The Somali government stands today for the role of the historical authoritative states. Since the role of the present-day elders can be compared to the historical chiefdoms at best, their role must be confined to sociocultural issues

Even the Kacaan government had a better grasp of their role than the current admin that distorts it as they were made into nabadoons tasked with only social-cultural communal issues.

And historically people all walks of life both men and women used to find employment in the cities/towns/villages pre-colonial era and in the independence era/revolutionary era by the state as the main employer. And foreign observers during the pre-colonial era remarked how justice was handled extremely well in the major towns.

So Somalis have to challenge and reform the system, instead of trying creating an image of a cultural status quo because it's not.
And we should broaden it to understand that it not only effects women badly but it affects all of us. Understanding that any one group or section that faces injustice is an injustice towards us all and that will make people act against it.

 

[wonyluvr]

I've heard from a couple of HG elders that since 1993, there's been a terrible issue with disorganization and getting the various groups/youth to heed authority. Many of them have mentioned the Bloody Monday massacre by the US military (Abdi House Raid) that occurred during a peace conference (and the funnily enough, also a HG summit to vote Caydiid out of politics and to withdraw support from him for the atrocities being committed by the USC) in 1993.

They stated that many respected HG sheikhs and elders were killed in the raid, leaving a void in leadership which lead to disorganization and chaos. This could be one of the reasons as why we still see HG groups still wildin out and expanding in the south.

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[Rayaale]

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The payed off Diyah is mostly common in rural nomadic areas, you can neither jail (There are no jail cells in Miiyi) or execute someone for a crime( in fear of retaliation). You pay a hefty fine as a punishment and are made to reconcile to prevent further violence.

Historically in Somalia the cities/states ,agricultural villages and coastal towns connected to sultanates people were either executed, put to trail (even trail by fire) and jailed.

During the two administrations after independence it was handled with severe punishment, policing and rape/killings were extremely rare as a consequence.

Same during the brief Islamic Courts Union era, where justice were mandated by non-clanal courts and parroling police units funded by business men.

It's important to understand this because the current situation in Somalia described by @Hodan from HR and @Angelina is deeply connected to collapse of the central state, which has been replaced with weak corrupt clan federalism, that was imposed on Somalis from the outside.

So people as a consequence have turned to the private sector for employment & basic services(93% of the jobs) not the public sector(government) which is riddled with nepotism & discrimination and to their local clan leaders for justice and law because they don't trust the corrupt state.

When historically Clan elders were outside of politics concerned with rural welfare, and acted as mediators and they were subject to and regulated by a over-arching non-clanal state actors and Sheikhs.

I encourage you all to read this to get an accurate understanding of the distortion of their role:

The Impact of the Role of Traditional Leaders on Politico-Governance in Somalia: Present Realities and Past Reflections​

One of the recommendations:


Even the Kacaan government had a better grasp of their role than the current admin that distorts it as they were made into nabadoons tasked with only social-cultural communal issues.

And historically people all walks of life both men and women used to find employment in the cities/towns/villages pre-colonial era and in the independence era/revolutionary era by the state as the main employer. And foreign observers during the pre-colonial era remarked how justice was handled extremely well in the major towns.

So Somalis have to challenge and reform the system, instead of trying creating an image of a cultural status quo because it's not.
And we should broaden it to understand that it not only effects women badly but it affects all of us. Understanding that any one group or section that faces injustice is an injustice towards us all and that will make people act against it.

Are you a historian you seem to be well versed in Somali history

 

[Marmarsi]

This is one of the calamities we have as Somalis. We have low IQ women who believe a man can r-word them and chop them up like the case I was talking about and his qabil can pay diya. Why even come for the men when we have women like that walking around?

It’s not just the women though, the men are not any different. No one in Somalia has a strong sense of self-preservation .. if they did they would riot everytime these murderers, rapists and thieves evade justice.

No man, woman or child is safe there as long they believe that their laandheere cousins freedom is far more important than keeping those streets safe.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

More has to with qabil . I would call somali society misoginistic

 

[_Yusuf_]

I stand corrected, it was @_Yusuf_ and @Hilmaam, but you did not correct them either. So, what does silence mean in the face of misogyny? Approval, or you simply don't care.


View attachment 343400

 

[EyiPunter]

I really can't stand this guy. he's truly someone I would enjoy getting thrown in prison for life. he works just to divide Somali people in any way possible. he was behind some state about Somalia President not being a real president and stating we are all Ethiopian and Somalia doesn't exist at all. He was inprison for 6 months to 1 years for that statement. afterwards he retracted his statement and was interviewed, but I personally would have offed him or let him do life for that statement.

 

[Basra]

x.com

x.com

Usually I don’t trust what that twitter user posts but i watched the video and this man Suldaan Hooley advises the father of Luul Abdelazizz to forgive the killer and give his other daughter to the man who killed Luul.

I can’t believe this man was given a platform on some sort of Somali channel and is spouting this. You can fight me on this and much as you want, but Somali society is incredibly misogynistic. The lives of women aren’t valued and this man has such little value for women that he’ll advise that a grieving father forgive the man that burnt his daughter alive and in fact give him another daughter to potentially kill.

And before you argue with me and say it’s ’one man’ it’s been several and they’re been vocal.

He does seem contrite and sorry tho. Maybe i am biased because he is semi-handsome in a habar gidir waaayyyy