So when dabar goynta Isaaqa was formed by the ogaden and funded by barre in the 70's you still hold that there was nothing anti isaaq going on
Why do you blame Siad Barre for what Ogaden did to you, but not Ethiopia for what Ogaden do to you now?So i'd have to prove siyaad barre armed them for a specific purpose, but him continuing to arm them after committing those acts isn't proof itself
You don't support the rebellion, and you don't support the barre government
So basically you don't take a stance on what happend?
If we lived in a perfect world your point of view would make sense, but then again it would be a perfect world without need for this discussion
Only Siilaanyo gets my respect. The rest got qabilomatic immunitySiilaanyo was a minister until 1982 when he joined the SNM.
Warancade was a high ranking member of the NSS
Ismail Faqash's name speaks for itself
Cawil was NSS
Cirro was NSS
Dr. Gaboose was MSBs personal doctor
Hawd is part of Ethiopia.
To interject, personally I would've supported a rebellion but in hindsight, it's obvious it mightve been a bit of a mistake
I'm by no means a MSB apologist. I vehemently disagree with counterproductive heavy handed tactics that make peace virtually impossible.
My question is what would you do if you were in his shoes and your archnemesis is coopting clan based rebel groups (even with legitimate grievances) to overthrow you while you're arming their rebel groups?
Step down and let Ethiopian proxies take control? Would you be comfortable with for example Abdullah Yusuf as President, the same guy that spearheaded an Ethiopian invasion of Galgaduud in 1982?
The SNM was apparently founded because the Ogaden or the WSLF used weapons meant to fight Ethiopia on Isaaq nomads in Hawd.
So you quoted me to tell me my points are trash, yet you don't address any of them?This boy has shown to be so stupid that it is not even worth listening to him, all he is typing is
His emotions have got to him which makes it impossible for him to have a rational debate
@Bahal In hindsight you see overthrowing the government as a big mistake, while in hindsight I saw no other probable solution, and in terms of my clan, I say it was the greatest thing to happen in the history of the republic. Barre went waaay to far. Even the jabarti and hawiye in xamar would mock us calling us xabad keento when they'd hear our accent. This showed the complete lack of care the other clans had for what was happening.
Regarding what I would do, of course I would step down. What power did Ethiopia have then? They had no influence whatsoever and their government was being overthrown as well. The eritreans, amxaar and tigray were all fighting one another. You can't make an excuse for Barre and say Ethiopian proxies were taking over, so he couldn't step down. That's intellectual dishonesty niinyo
I don't know if you guys remember that one communique from the Ethiopian Foreign Ministry that was later taken down after we posted it on somnet but to all those naysayers, here's the truth from the horse's mouth:
Ethiopia, for its part, rather than responding to the threat by respecting the right of Ethiopian Somalis and by fostering brotherhood between the peoples of Ethiopia, so Ethiopian Somalis could live in voluntary unity with their other fellow Ethiopians, resorted to dismantling Somalia to the extent possible. The policy was to respond to Somali aggression by taking the war to Somalia and, along the way, aggravating the contradiction between the Somali clans.
The situation has now fundamentally changed. The "Greater Somalia" ideology has been discredited. It is now over ten years since Somalia has become stateless. On the other hand, in Ethiopia, a constitution in which peoples' rights are guaranteed is being implemented. Ethiopian Somalis are living in brotherhood and voluntary unity with other Ethiopians in a newly defined, inclusive Ethiopian identity. Together with other Ethiopians, Ethio-Somalis are, in the spirit of equality, democracy, development and an Ethiopian identity, resting on strong foundations and contributing to the building of the country. Ethiopia's vulnerability to the "Greater Somalia" ideology has been greatly diminished .
Significance of the relations
There is no condition whereby Somalia could contribute as a source of investment and financial development or as a significant market for Ethiopia. After a process of some length, followed by peace and stability in Somalia, there is the chance that it could become a significant market, but this is difficult to imagine in the short and medium term. Regarding natural resources, all the big rivers in Somalia flow from Ethiopia. The irrigation schemes in Somalia which effectively served the people are in a poor state. On the other hand, as our country steps up its development, we will have to dam the rivers for irrigation purposes. The harnessing of rivers in Ethiopia can help Somalia resist floods, and so the benefit would be mutual. But on the other hand, these rivers could be used in Ethiopia - mainly in the Somali region - for development purposes. This could create a minor conflict but the problem can be tackled by the principle of give and take in a way that takes into account the national interests of the two countries.
As can be understood from the above, in the short and medium terms, Somalia does not have a positive or negative influence of note in the development of our country. And yet, in Somalia there are numerous ports that can provide services to Ethiopia. Starting from the port of Zeila which gave services to Ethiopia during its long history, all the way to Kismayo, there are no less than seven ports in Somalia that can be used by different parts of our country. These possibilities could significantly contribute to our development, but due to the "Greater Somalia"-driven conflict and national oppression in Ethiopia, they were never seriously considered (not to forget that Ethiopia had ports of its own). The current collapse of the state in Somalia makes it unrealistic to think of using the ports at the present time.
Even if the chances to use the ports were to arise, and though that would increase Somalia's relevance to our development, one cannot see a positive role that Somalia can play at this time. On the negative side, it is worth noting that the disintegration of Somalia has posed dangers for peace and stability in Ethiopia. This situation has spoilt the image of our sub-region, and the Horn is now perceived as an area of conflict. Our chances to attract investment have been reduced and the "Somalia effect" has contributed to the uncertainty about regional peace and the lack of economic linkages between the two countries.
Policy Direction
Our proximity to Somalia would be beneficial to our development if there were peace and stability in Somalia. Peace can come to our region if a government committed to fighting disorder, terrorism and extremism in cooperation with its neighbours is established in Somalia.Some circles say that the establishment of such a government in Somalia would once again resuscitate the ideology of "Greater Somalia" and that peace, democracy and development in Somalia would, in that case, not benefit Ethiopia. This view is fundamentally wrong and dangerous. First, of all, from now onwards, our country safeguards the unity of its peoples not by denying them options but by helping them recognise and confirm in practice, the option based on equality, mutual development and democracy.
Although the international community wishes to bring about peace in Somalia, it is evidently not ready to exert all its efforts to realise this. Thus, it appears to us that the condition of instability in Somalia is likely to persist for some time. Therefore, our policy should not be limited to contributing to the emergence of peace and democracy only and, based on that, to forging strong ties; rather, it should also address what we should do if instability and turmoil persist.
Our fundamental policy remains to persistently work towards the birth of a peaceful and democratic Somalia. But in light of the continuing instability, the policy we pursue should essentially be a damage-limitation policy to ensure that the instability does not further harm our country, the region and the people of Somalia. If the instability is not stopped, the only option left is to limit the damage that may be caused. There are three main options to limit the damage.
First, we have to try to help those regions which are comparatively stable and do not shelter extremists and terrorists in order that the relative peace they enjoy is maintained and even strengthened. Those that can be mentioned in this regard are the regions known as Somaliland and Puntland. In the spirit of damage limitation and to assist these regions maintain their stability, it is necessary that the links be strengthened in such areas as trade, transport and the like in the interest of our country and the people inhabiting the region. The question could be raised regarding the recognition of Somaliland as an independent state. Taking this initiative is not preferable to Ethiopia because it would create negative feelings on the part of Somalis living in the rest of Somalia and others would be suspicious of our intent. Therefore, our cooperation with these regions should not include recognizing the regional administrations as independent states. But we should continue to assist these regions in maintaining peace and stability, as it is to our advantage and the benefit of the peoples living in the area.
Secondly, we shall certainly continue to be exposed to various dangers as long as peace and stability elude Somalia as a whole. In recognition of this, we must create the capability to defend ourselves and foil any attack by forces of extremism, terrorism and other anti-peace elements originating in Somalia. In this regard we must always be vigilant.
Thirdly, we have to work in cooperation with the Somali people in the region, and the international community as a whole, to weaken and neutralize those forces coming from any part of Somalia to perpetrate attacks against our country. Obviously, the solution to all of this is the prevalence of democracy, and everything must be done to assist in reaching this solution. At the same time, however, we need to receive the understanding and support of the people of Somalia and the international community regarding what we are facing. While maintaining the principle of non-interference in the internal affairs of Somalia, we have to ensure our right to safeguard our peace and defend ourselves.
