Which character is most responsible for Somalia's destruction?

[Freebandz]

Lmao, Awdal State of Somalia? Is this the best source you could come with?

Also I googled the source of the image they used, got this lol

Habeen wanaagsan

You know man just shut the f*ck up

Armed conflict also occurred which opposed the Gadabursi and the Issaq. In February 1991, "ethnic cleansing" by the SNM took place in the Boroma region, the main Gadabursi town (Inter-NGO Committee Apr. 1991, 71; Africa Research Bulletin 1-28 Feb. 1991, 10025; Radio of the Somali National Movement 5 Feb. 1991). The Gadabursi town of Dila was also partially destroyed by the SNM (Ibid.). More recently, fighting broke out in the Gadabursi town at the end of March 1992, spreading to Berbera two days later (Horn of Africa Bulletin Mar. 1992, 11).The Gadabursi are traditional enemies of the Issaq and, according to a June 1991 report, Gadabursi refugees in Ethiopian camps were apprehensive to return to newly-proclaimed Somaliland because they feared repraisal for their association with the regime of Mohamed Siad Barre (The Independent22 June 1991; Le Monde 7 Feb. 1991). For example, Gadabursi militias had helped the Somali Army to retake control of Zeila and Loyada in April 1990 after most of the region was conquered by the SNM (AFP 4 Apr. 1990). The fact that most refugees who fled to Ethiopia during the first part of 1991 were Gadabursi indicates that the fighting for independence, led by the Issaq SNM, has led a significant number of Gadabursi to flee Somaliland (Ryle Jan. 1992, 13; Reuters 18 May 1991; Le Monde 23 May 1991). The SNM destroyed the home town of a large number of refugees, Dila, which prevents many Gadabursi Reer Nuur (sub-clan) refugees from returning from Ethiopian camps (Ryle Jan. 1992, 13).

http://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6ad8e24.html
This is talking about when your criminals fighting the regime forces in north somalia

The SNM was itself involved in numerous human rights violations and committed atrocities, as evidenced by massacres of non-Isaaq families. The targeted populations did not forget the toll taken. According to Gersony's report, the SNM "killed unarmed civilians in individual instances which together may have resulted in the deaths of at least several hundred or more persons." These killings occurred "when neither resistance to these actions nor danger to the SNM was present" (Gersony Aug. 1989, 60-65).

http://www.refworld.org/docid/3ae6a8544.html
don't come to me again unless you have proof to back up your shitty claim

 

[nambarA]

If you had to choose any single person who was most responsible for Somalia's dysfunction and chaos, who would you choose? Of course, it was a whole host of men responsible for the destruction of our country, but who would be the #1 culprit?

Jimmy Carter. He promised to arm Somalia during the 1977 war against Ethiopia. Not only did he renege, he sent arms/weapons to Ethiopia via Israel. That's what led Somalia to lose the war against two superpowers plus several countries helping Ethiopia.

 

[Liibaan]

The communist system or xisbiga Hantiwadaaga ruined us. Just look around Africa and you Wil see consistent pattern. Almost all sub Saharan countries had a strong man rule followed by lengthy civil wars along tribal/ethnic lines. So there you have it, the prove is in the putting.

That being said, Somalia best days were in the 70s pre Ogden war under Siyad Barre. So he did some good , but his later acts ruined his legacy

 

[Southsidemj1]

Who cares anymore and what good does this bring us.

Lets talk about how we can move forward and put ethiopia in its place once and for all because right now our last worry should we what happened in the last 25 years because we are even in a more dangerous position.

 

[Thegoodshepherd]

None of those men brought an ideology that permanently hurt Somalia. Laakin Xasan Dahir Aweys brought relgious extremism to Somalia, which is something the country will struggle with for the next decades. Somali people will never feel as safe as they used to in their home country due to this man. He brought suicide bombing to Somalia.

 

[paragon]

None of those men brought an ideology that permanently hurt Somalia. Laakin Xasan Dahir Aweys brought relgious extremism to Somalia, which is something the country will struggle with for the next decades. Somali people will never feel as safe as they used to in their home country due to this man. He brought suicide bombing to Somalia.

Foreign money + training brought extremism to Somalia. Notice how it appeared out of nowhere in the last decade. It was clearly by design. Also, Somalia as a state was bound to collapse, that's what happens when you have a dictator in power (after sometime). I think Barre wasn't the best pick for Somalia. As much as I like Somali language instruction and improved rates of literacy. He woefully equipped his people to deal with the English speaking world. It's hard to compete when you don't have a grasp of the language. I have noticed that those with the strongest command of English which are Somali are those that started school before the 70s. I have also noticed they are among some of the most successful Somalis of the previous generation that found little problems adjusting to the western world. That and Barre didn't receive much military training, he was a former policeman in Italy that was propped up by the Italians. He became nepotistic, which was the cause of his downfall. He put his trust in the wrong people that envisaged the good old days of tribal warfare but with heavy artillery and targeting specific clans.

I would say the majority of clans are to blame for the way Somalia is the way it is today. I would also blame those that profited off of Somalia's dysfunction all these years. This group has only reached ascension after the war. They stripped the country bare and seized property that didn't belong to them. They benefited from the fiefdom aka warlordism. They are the main reason why Somali nationalism doesn't exist. Also those individuals irrespective of clan that targeted innocent people whether it was in South Somalia, Puntland or Somaliland. I don't care what tribe you belong to, you are the reason why distrust between Somalis has become amplified. I would also say concentrating the majority of government funding and power in Mogadishu was the biggest mistake and has contributed to the collapse of Somalia. That is another reason why Somalia won't be united anytime in the foreseeable future. Let's not forget foreign meddling, you simply can't forget that. I could go on but I'll stop here.

 

[yas/London]

I rate this Man.

 

[paragon]

I rate this Man.

The dude sounds like an attention seeker. "I'm the first Somali American to hold a JD from the University of Minnesota". Great for him. Until his accomplishments are compared to Ivy League graduates. He also changed his stance from pro-Somaliland to denigrating it just like that. Sounds like his integrity mirrors that of Professor Samatar.

 

[yas/London]

The dude sounds like an attention seeker. "I'm the first Somali American to hold a JD from the University of Minnesota". Great for him. Until his accomplishments are compared to Ivy League graduates. He also changed his stance from pro-Somaliland to denigrating it just like that. Sounds like his integrity mirrors that of Professor Samatar.

The dude sounds like an attention seeker. "I'm the first Somali American to hold a JD from the University of Minnesota". Great for him. Until his accomplishments are compared to Ivy League graduates. He also changed his stance from pro-Somaliland to denigrating it just like that. Sounds like his integrity mirrors that of Professor Samatar.

Who cares? People change their mind all the time, I know I do. However, he told the truth you cannot deny that.

 

[Geeljire]

This is the nonsense myth told by ignorant Somalis .." We had a great force"...dude we were a nation of 4 million in the 70s ...we had ww2 weapons donated to us ...our fighter jets were MiGs from 1950.,.our tanks were the T-1 from ww2 ...we did a stupid little incursion into Ethiopia when Ethiopia were under political chaos ...you say that " we were respected" ..bro our people always have a false pride, that's one of their bizarre attributes because it's delusional thinking ..

Do you want me to show you what the Soviet and the Americans thought of us and Siyad's regime ..,waar iska aamus

Ok you started of well then you blew it!! Somalia had the strongest miltiary force in Africa because of Russias support. The Force compared to internationally with the West and,Russia and China was very insignificant and laughable . People in Africa in general had shitty Army.

Best Army in Africa isnt really something to brag about.

False Pride? What we had back then was Sense of nobility garned from our pride in our Somaliness. That my friend is never false. Irregardless of our sitation one shall not resort to self pity and dehumanization. One should carry himself with Nobility!

Siyaad barre made Somalia a nation with Enemies hence why they hate our gutts, plus the dude played games by exploiting the west and pining super power against super power. Which is how he got support and aid from them.

He knew the wests interests in Somalia hence why he played games with them even this fake Communist nonsense. Hence Why the US and Russia hated our gutts they believed Siad Barre was a disgusting man. He didnt fulfill their interests , only exploited them.

Other countries from China, some european countries, Africa and Asia. Somalia was Well respected particularly in Africa. Because of his Pan Africanist Attitude and his anti colonial support to countries. They even Streets named after him in some countries. Somalia Was the head for the African Union Summit and held its head quarters there.

Saaxiib remove the cuqdad and think rationally!!

 

[Geeljire]

This is a stupid Thread!!

What happened to the somali people is Injustice regardless of what people call it. People are out of wack going on about this Was done to clan A and This done to Clan b and that was than to me bla bla bla bla.

You guys are over simplyfing it and focusing on an issue that is much broader and much mroe complex than that particular individual or that particular clan.

At the end of the day the issue is Injustice.

Once we recognize the issue is Injustice , then everyone will come together in to the discussion cuz all of us have intrests in having a just society. Then we can come together to lay out how the system is more just for you,for me and for everybody else wether they are complaining or not.

We need true Genuine reconciliation not, hebel hebel did this and hebel hebel did that. We need people who can produce beneficial ideas & solutions to adresses our every concern, interests. & needs.

We dont need people who only complain and character assassinates, or past develors and victimizers!

 

[menace]

Jimmy Carter. He promised to arm Somalia during the 1977 war against Ethiopia. Not only did he renege, he sent arms/weapons to Ethiopia via Israel. That's what led Somalia to lose the war against two superpowers plus several countries helping Ethiopia.

Jimmy carter is on a documentary where he frankly said " I couldn't see myself helping SOMALIA over Ethiopia...keep in mind that Jimmy was a conservative southern Baptist ...I have the video to show you guys ...this video shows the little Amount Somalia meant to the super powers ..you got folks here saying " SOMALIA was respected and was powerful" ...actually it was a starving little known hell-hole in Africa to many others

 

[Kaafiye]

^^^But bro, we need to acknowledge the past before we move on into the future. How can you expect Isaaq Somalis to ever want genuine brotherhood with Somalis who glorify Siyad Barre? How can you expect to have Majerteens to completely dismiss the crimes of Aideed?

We need to acknowledge the fact that these cursed men are responsible (but not solely responsible) for the carnage that exists in Somalia today. These men need to be repudiated

 

[Geeljire]

^^^But bro, we need to acknowledge the past before we move on into the future. How can you expect Isaaq Somalis to ever want genuine brotherhood with Somalis who glorify Siyad Barre? How can you expect to have Majerteens to completely dismiss the crimes of Aideed?

We need to acknowledge the fact that these cursed men are responsible (but not solely responsible) for the carnage that exists in Somalia today. These men need to be repudiated

The first step We call it like it is which is Injustice!!

Somali people suffered injustice!! We have no time to squarell about the past. Completly meaningless and utter self defeating unless you want to provoke another civil war or inter clan conflic you better avoid that hebel hebel talk.

This issue is much broader and more complex than that one particular individual or that one particular clan. Focusing on it like that is very narrow and make it really hatefully simplistic and create this societal Victimization.

At the end of the day what happend was injustice! Once we call it that every clan will have interest in it

People will get on board to discuss how to make a just society for everyone you me my clan familiy everyone. A just society for everyone.. thereby Lay out a system that works for us caters to everyones needs , interests and greviances

 

[menace]

I have a brilliant way, a way our forefathers use to reconcile which was to give each other females...

I am willing to forgive and forgot as long as I am giving Idman by the daarood people

 

[paragon]

Who cares? People change their mind all the time, I know I do. However, he told the truth you cannot deny that.

Sure he can change his mind. There's no need to go on an anti-Somaliland tirade, if he decides to change his stance in support of unity good for him, just don't be diminutive of Somaliland in the process, whether he likes it or not he's from there, just like dear old Adeer Samatar which came to this rude awakening. The man needs to be more tactful, particularly if he studied Law. I'll forgive the flag kissing antics since they seemed to be for fanfare.

 

[yas/London]

Sure he can change his mind. There's no need to go on an anti-Somaliland tirade, if he decides to change his stance in support of unity. It's a sign of poor tact. The flag kissing antics seemed to be for fanfare.

Good luck for you Somalilanders, I've got my own problems right now with my crazy uncle in Holland.

 

[Geeljire]

The dude sounds like an attention seeker. "I'm the first Somali American to hold a JD from the University of Minnesota". Great for him. Until his accomplishments are compared to Ivy League graduates. He also changed his stance from pro-Somaliland to denigrating it just like that. Sounds like his integrity mirrors that of Professor Samatar.

Both him and prof Samatar are Phooneys. I used his video for comedic purposes to troll Landers. A dude with JD yet he cant even pronounce Secessionism instead says successionism ,. They are attention seekers like you said, they go where the wind blows. Prof Samatar is a psuedo intellectual all he does is complain and bicker on about this and that. Never produces any ideas or solutions. He got that hollier than thou attitude as well that he so intolerant towards disagreements that he goes on a complete hissy fit. Not even balanced or consistent one minute pro somaliland the next minute anti somaliland and vise versa.

its laughable you can go back to their old written work and videos and use their own old arguments and points against

 

[Freebandz]

^^^But bro, we need to acknowledge the past before we move on into the future. How can you expect Isaaq Somalis to ever want genuine brotherhood with Somalis who glorify Siyad Barre? How can you expect to have Majerteens to completely dismiss the crimes of Aideed?

We need to acknowledge the fact that these cursed men are responsible (but not solely responsible) for the carnage that exists in Somalia today. These men need to be repudiated

Waar stfu in the previous page I showed you these people were bunch of criminals who killed innocent yet here you are still pushing the same bs propaganda they push.
Look at the meth guy on this thread he knows the truth yet he continues to lie.
No one fucking needs these people to begin with f*ck em

 

[Liibaan]

Foreign money + training brought extremism to Somalia. Notice how it appeared out of nowhere in the last decade. It was clearly by design. Also, Somalia as a state was bound to collapse, that's what happens when you have a dictator in power (after sometime). I think Barre wasn't the best pick for Somalia. As much as I like Somali language instruction and improved rates of literacy. He woefully equipped his people to deal with the English speaking world. It's hard to compete when you don't have a grasp of the language. I have noticed that those with the strongest command of English which are Somali are those that started school before the 70s. I have also noticed they are among some of the most successful Somalis of the previous generation that found little problems adjusting to the western world. That and Barre didn't receive much military training, he was a former policeman in Italy that was propped up by the Italians. He became nepotistic, which was the cause of his downfall. He put his trust in the wrong people that envisaged the good old days of tribal warfare but with heavy artillery and targeting specific clans.

I would say the majority of clans are to blame for the way Somalia is the way it is today. I would also blame those that profited off of Somalia's dysfunction all these years. This group has only reached ascension after the war. They stripped the country bare and seized property that didn't belong to them. They benefited from the fiefdom aka warlordism. They are the main reason why Somali nationalism doesn't exist. Also those individuals irrespective of clan that targeted innocent people whether it was in South Somalia, Puntland or Somaliland. I don't care what tribe you belong to, you are the reason why distrust between Somalis has become amplified. I would also say concentrating the majority of government funding and power in Mogadishu was the biggest mistake and has contributed to the collapse of Somalia. That is another reason why Somalia won't be united anytime in the foreseeable future. Let's not forget foreign meddling, you simply can't forget that. I could go on but I'll stop here.