Help me understand this please

[Hafez]

Yes they do.

For example instead of viewing the crescent to determine Eid or Ramadan they follow whatever Saudi says regardless of what's observed where they are. That's innovation. They do plenty of other thing too many to list, many of which are what I call following 'the letter of the law but not the spirit of the law' if you get what I mean.

Funny you mentioned that... Me and my Shaykh were having a discussion about this not long ago wallahi. What you're saying is in fact true. But that's not necessarily a foreign ideology from other religions, it's an innovation.

I only spoke on the spiritual tradition of Islam, not the particular practices of specific Sufi orders. @AbdiJohnson thinks tasawwuf is an innovation and not Islam. As for people referring to themselves as "Sufi", it's a sign of the times. I don't support division, but the Ummah has been divided by Salafis who think they're the only Muslims and everyone who deviates from how they understand and practice the religion is a gaal. Ironically, many of them end up with Salafi burnout and become gaals.

Ignore @AbdiJohnson abaayo, these kind of times, he's mirqaan. The Sahaba emphasised rectifying the heart and having ikhlaas (sincerity) in one's actions. It was just given the name "tasawwuf" in later years. The spiritual aspect of Islam does exist, in fact, it's what Islam is all about but it's better that one should avoid being identified as ahlul tasawwuf in our day and age. One should just identify as ahlul sunnah, khalaas, nothing more...

 

[Duchess]

The Islamic God of Abraham has said if you purposely go against what I said and making it permissible, you are not Muslim.

Its one thing to have gay sex and know it's haram but it's a totally different thing to have gay sex and accept it as normal. Youre out of the fold.

Gay sex is haram. I never said it wasn't haram. I said there's a difference between attraction ( which you're not punished for) and actions/behaviors ( which are punishable) so being gay ( being attracted to the same gender) is not haram. Acting on it is. As for gay marriage, I support it in western/secular countries.

 

[Inactive]

You're damn right tasawuuf is bidah @Duchess. Show me where the Prophet break danced or prayed to graves or celebrated his birthday with pomp and circumstance?

 

[Inactive]

Gay sex is haram. I never said it wasn't haram. I said there's a difference between attraction ( which you're not punished for) and actions/behaviors ( which are punishable) so being gay ( being attracted to the same gender) is not haram. Acting on it is. As for gay marriage, I support it in western/secular countries.

Then you're not Muslim if you support it in secular Western nations. You are making halal what is haram. This goes against the teachings of Islam

 

[Hafez]

You're damn right tasawuuf is bidah @Duchess. Show me where the Prophet break danced or prayed to graves or celebrated his birthday with pomp and circumstance?

That kind of tasawwuf is bid'ah in fact some of them are even kufr. We are talking about spirituality that is derived from the Qur'an and Sunnah. It has always existed but it was just given the name tasawwuf.

 

[Hafez]

Some people have come up with innovations (some that are even kufr) in the name of tasawwuf over the years, so one should avoid being identified from ahlul tasawwuf all together.

 

[Inactive]

That kind of tasawwuf is bid'ah in fact some of them are even kufr. We are talking about spirituality that is derived from the Qur'an and Sunnah. It has always existed but it was just given the name tasawwuf.

The real Sufis are the break dancing mystics of Zoroastrians. Anyone can be simply spiritual. The real Sufis are not just spiritual. They do unIslamic things. But Sufis were the first to believe in the oneness of God and heaven and hell and the good and bad deeds that take you there. They are the first monotheists. They existed well before Abraham

 

[John Michael]

@Hafez my great grandfather was given a title of aw instead of sheikh, that's clearly a pre-Islamic practice.

Just because something is foreign or from non Islamic roots doesn't mean it's against the deen. Many cultural things have been embedded in each practice of Islam and I guess whirling is one of them for the Turkish.

 

[Hafez]

@Hafez my great grandfather was given a title of aw instead of sheikh, that's clearly a pre-Islamic practice.

Just because something is foreign or from non Islamic roots doesn't mean it's against the deen. Many cultural things have been embedded in each practice of Islam and I guess whirling is one of them for the Turkish.

Warr nayaa!!!!!!!!!!! *Stops himself from being verbally abusive*. There's nothing wrong with titles, they're not using those "titles" as an act of worship are they? Just like the way there's nothing wrong with driving cars, it's a fairly recent invention, but it's not an act of worship ma garatay. BRB

 

[BebsiBolice]

I don't believe so but some Muslim's believe the fact that they're gaalo overrides any goodness in their heart. Basically you can't be a "good person" if you're not Muslim.

Funny thing is Allah says there will be people among u who have committed horrible acts but have a pure akida and will enter jennah. I have a hard time believing anyone will spend eternity in hell. God does say he is the most forgiving.

 

[Inactive]

Funny thing is Allah says there will be people among u who have committed horrible acts but have a pure akida and will enter jennah. I have a hard time believing anyone will spend eternity in hell. God does say he is the most forgiving.

No one who follows the Salaf (real Muslim) will see heaven except the Christians, Jews and Sabians of before the prophets time and those who were not exposed to Islam after the prophet.

This is clearly laid out in the Koran.

 

[John Michael]

Some people have come up with innovations (some that are even kufr) in the name of tasawwuf over the years, so one should avoid being identified from ahlul tasawwuf all together.

That's silly.

How about all the takfirs that so called salafis make, that is extremely serious. If you're going to disassociate from a label I would disassociate from the 21 century iPhone using, glove wearing, keyboard warrior takfiris.

Aka some modern salafis unfortunately

 

[BebsiBolice]

No one who follows the Salaf (real Muslim) will see heaven except the Christians, Jews and Sabians of before the prophets time and those who were not exposed to Islam after the prophet.

This is clearly laid out in the Koran.

what? makes no sense. BYE.

 

[Duchess]

what? makes no sense. BYE.

Ignore his attempt at Atheist dawah.

 

[Inactive]

what? makes no sense. BYE.

This is what the kitaab says apart from Muslims, even mass murdering Muslims.

Denying even a hamza in the Quran makes you kafir. You denied way more than a hamza

 

[BebsiBolice]

This is what the kitaab says apart from Muslims, even mass murdering Muslims.

Denying even a hamza in the Quran makes you kafir. You denied way more than a hamza

I've heard a lot of gays in america are doing meth.

 

[Inactive]

I've heard a lot of gays in america are doing meth.

So are lots of Somalis and Muslims.

So what?

 

[Gibiin-Udug]

Let's not even pretend, if we were born in a Christian society we would be of that faith. we would probably be against Islam and other religions.

My question if your deen is a birth lottery, how is it fair to go to hell for this? It is illogical. Surely God would be looking at our substance and actions rather then following some daily rituals.

The usual nonsense response is that it is your responsibility to somehow find out the 'truth' and magically follow it. That is nonsense

Religion is like a tree, the more you water it and take care of it the more you will enjoy it's fruits. Allah swt, created us, gave us life for free without asking nothing in return, just worship him. Take care of the deen, follow the rules and you will be on the straight path. It's really simple. Allah swt created hell for a reason. Now it's your choice which one you want to enter.

 

[Hafez]

Ok I'm back, I needed a little snack.

That's silly.

How about all the takfirs that so called salafis make, that is extremely serious. If you're going to disassociate from a label I would disassociate from the 21 century iPhone using, glove wearing, keyboard warrior takfiris.

Aka some modern salafis unfortunately

Takfir is indeed very serious, especially if they made it on baseless assumptions.

In the hadith Ibn Umar related that the Holy Prophet said: If a Muslim calls another kafir, then if he is a kafir let it be so; otherwise, he [the caller] is himself a kafir.''

Imam Bukhari related in his Sahih v. 4, p. 124 #6103, 6104 on the authority of Ibn ‘Umar and Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet Muhammad (sallaAllahu alayhie wa sallam) said, “If a man says to his brother, ‘Okafir,’ then it returns to one of them.” Likewise, Imam Muslim narrated similar hadiths in his Sahih v. 2, p. 237-38 on the authority of Ibn ‘Umar and Abu Dharr.

After the rise of the raafidah (a branch of Shia), the scholars of Islam (RA) started distinguishing themselves from the raafidah by calling themselves Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaa'ah. For a similar reason, one should not identify as ahlul tasawwuf (since majority of their adherents practice bid'ah).

Just look around you today, who are most of the people that call themselves ahlul tasawwuf? No doubt, if you identify yourself as a "Sufi" in this age, people would automatically mistake you for the mubtadi'een. Why would you do such thing? It's enough to identify as a Sunni Muslim and practice authentic Islam (which includes the spiritual aspect), ma garatay abaayo.

These are the people who claim to be ahlul tasawwuf in our age:

What you don't understand is that, if innovation (bid'ah) was allowed, the Sahaba wouldn't even recognise Islam today. Why? Because everyone would inject foreign practices, this would literally corrupt Islam, do you not see?

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stated repeatedly that: "Every newly-invented thing is a bid'ah (innovation), every bid'ah is a going astray, and every going astray will be in the Fire." (Reported by al-Nisaa'i in al-Sunan, Salaat al-'Eedayn, Baab kayfa al-Khutbah). Reports with the same meaning were narrated via Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) by Ahmad, via al-'Irbaad ibn Saariyah by Abu Dawud and via Ibn Mas'ood (may Allaah be pleased with him) by Ibn Maajah.

P.S. I don't identify as a Salafi although I pretty much agree with them for the most part. I don't identify as one because of the hateful Salafis who reject taqlid for the laymen, call Muslims all kinds of names, consider only themselves Muslims, etc.

 

[Tramo]

No one who follows the Salaf (real Muslim) will see heaven except the Christians, Jews and Sabians of before the prophets time and those who were not exposed to Islam after the prophet.

This is clearly laid out in the Koran.