Is federalism 'treaty' good or bad for .So?

[DR OSMAN]

I would have based it on regions where the 18 ones created in the 80s become a full governing autonomous states or the old 8 regions that existed in 60s and 70s as I believe that could help Somalia to walk again and rebuilt its lost state institution and Qabil be kept away from political scene in favor for regionalism regardless of what your background as Qabil affairs should be handled by local traditional elders or the community.

Cultural allegiance isn't linked to 1960-80 state carved border, if it was, then u have a leg to stand on, why do u care what they believe, just carve a system that ensure their cultural value clannism is productive, why are u so scared of 'clan' are u a 'weak' clan, are u trying to conceal yourself under booli qaran or trying to mix with other clan, thats sad bro, love dadkaga, other clans dont care 4 u in reality somalia, only maybe abroad does somali identity even work and only 'social level' not even 'diaspora commitee' or any social system.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

I would have based it on regions where the 18 ones created in the 80s become a full governing autonomous states or the old 8 regions that existed in 60s and 70s as I believe that could help Somalia to walk again and rebuilt its lost state institution and Qabil be kept away from political scene in favor for regionalism regardless of what your background as Qabil affairs should be handled by local traditional elders or the community.

Let us put the point of tribes to aside for a moment to revisit at a later time, and ask: so, in that regard, you would rather have 18 States than the current 6? Does that not further complicate matters? Why do you think colonial regional boundaries carry greater weight than the native ones?

 

[Haragwaafi]

Cultural allegiance isn't linked to 1960-80 state carved border, if it was, then u have a leg to stand on, why do u care what they believe, just carve a system that ensure it's productive, why are u so scared of 'clan' are u a 'weak' clan, are u trying to conceal yourself under booli qaran or trying to mix with other clan, thats sad bro, love dadkaga, other clans dont care 4 u in reality locally, only maybe abroad does somali work and only 'social level' not even 'diaspora commitee'.

You can't possibily think that Somalis pre independence clan relations are the same as now as that's not true as relations between communities from the last 30 years or so is keep getting worse when Qabil has been introdouced into the political sphere and if we truly see ourseleves as one Somali people then we should drop the tacasub al Qabily which is haram and my main poiunt most importantly is we should stop makling ourseleves be laughingstock in the world like you have Yemen a nation full of thousands of different tribes and there's no a single tribal warfare ever happened in their ongoing 8 year civil war which is fought between groups with different political believes.

 

[Bari🐍]

You can't possibily think that Somalis pre independence clan relations are the same as now as that's not true as relations between communities from the last 30 years or so is keep getting worse when Qabil has been introdouced into the political sphere and if we truly see ourseleves as one Somali people then we should drop the tacasub al Qabily which is haram and my main poiunt most importantly is we should stop makling ourseleves be laughingstock in the world like you have Yemen a nation full of thousands of different tribes and there's no a single tribal warfare ever happened in their ongoing 8 year civil war which is fought between groups with different political believes.

People were killing each other in major cities over qabil 30 years ago.

 

[Haragwaafi]

Let us put the point of tribes to aside for a moment to revisit at a later time, and ask: so, in that regard, you would rather have 18 States than the current 6? Does that not further complicate matters? Why do you think colonial regional boundaries carry greater weight than the native ones?

It wouldn't complicate things as the states will be diverse in clan sense except maybe few regions but it will help qabil not being part of the political system but share of power or influnce will be one based on fair representation of the regions in the state or govt.

 

[Haragwaafi]

People were killing each other in major cities over qabil 30 years ago.

That's the civil war era but creating a state for the diferent tribes won't solve the issue.

 

[Bari🐍]

That's the civil war era but creating a state for the diferent tribes won't solve the issue.

These states were created by the people themselves choosing to come together and have statehood. People should be able to shape their own destiny and choose their own future like Khatumo.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

It wouldn't complicate things as the states will be diverse in clan sense except maybe few regions but it will help qabil not being part of the political system but share of power or influnce will be one based on fair representation of the regions in the state or govt.

Let us experiment with your idea, and pick 3 regions in the North, East, and South, and see how your method could be applied. Shall we pick Togdheer, Mudug, and J Hoose? You may suggest others, if so desired.

 

[Haragwaafi]

These states were created by the people themselves choosing to come together and have statehood. People should be able to shape their own destiny and choose their own future like Khatumo.

Not true Somalis had no say whether their nation should be based on clan federalism or the 4.5 system

 

[Haragwaafi]

Let us experiment with your idea, and pick 3 regions in the North, East, and South, and see how your method could be applied. Shall we pick Togdheer, Mudug, and J Hoose? You may suggest others, if so desired.

Sure I don't there's any problem with that suggestion

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Haragwaafi a country who had a civil war at a clan dimension, failed state 30 years, tried copying/pasting foreign systems from colonial legacy, attempted a unitary govt thru civilian/kacan era which led to tyranny and economic regional disparities, after all that u want to say let these ppl come together and forget all that and wats worse brother u want them to get along in '8 states colonially carved or 18 kacan carved states' which none pay allegiance to kkkkk as clan identity is supreme over 18 or 8 state identities, war colonial solution shaqayn waysee, plus civil war wasnt even about 18 state identities kkkk your proposed solution is out of touch with somali narrative, war foreign copy-paste wala tijaabay, way socon kari waydee for 30 years adiguna mid kale miyaad noo wada.

We must carve a system with clan characteristic the ppl who live their are not foreign culture and why foreign systems always fail. Its not fuedal society either and clan identity is supreme value and allegiance.

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Sure I don't there's any problem with that suggestion

Togdheer has 6 clans residing in it,
Mudug has 9, and
J Hoose has 6 (I think).

Each shall have 1 Senator in the Upper Chamber, and ? in the Lower Chamber. How will power-sharing and fair represenation work? How would seats be shared?

? I shall have to look up the actual number in the Lower House, but let us assume each region has 17 MPs.

 

[Bari🐍]

Not true Somalis had no say whether their nation should be based on clan federalism or the 4.5 system

It's not really clan federalism, the states are diverse and have different qabils. To create a state 2 or more gobols had to merge and that's what happened. The gobols near each other came together.

 

[Haragwaafi]

@Haragwaafi a country who had a civil war at a clan dimension, failed state 30 years, tried copying/pasting foreign systems from colonial legacy, attempted a unitary govt thru civilian/kacan era which led to tyranny and economic regional disparities, after all that u want to say let these ppl come together and forget all that and wats worse brother u want them to get along in '8 states colonially carved or 18 kacan carved states' which none pay allegiance to kkkkk as clan identity is supreme over 18 or 8 state identities, war colonial solution shaqayn waysee, plus civil war wasnt even about 18 state identities kkkk your proposed solution is out of touch with somali narrative, war foreign copy-paste wala tijaabay, way socon kari waydee for 30 years adiguna mid kale miyaad noo wada.

We must carve a system with clan characteristic the ppl who live their are not foreign culture and why foreign systems always fail. Its not fuedal society either and clan identity is supreme value and allegiance.

I'm not here to change anyones opinion I;m just commenting to the ill thoughted system that failed to proudce a stable running govt or institution in Somalia for the last 20 years which clrealy shows the failures of the "Federal" and 4.5 system.

 

[DR OSMAN]

Togdheer has 6 clans residing in it,
Mudug has 9, and
J Hoose has 6 (I think).

Each shall have 1 Senator in the Upper Chamber, and ? in the Lower Chamber. How will power-sharing and fair represenation work? How would seats be shared?

? I shall have to look up the actual number in the Lower House, but let us assume each region has 17 MPs.

Why even bother testing this mad man solution that is a foreign model and irrelevant and doesnt address somalia political state experiments, clan values, civil war era, economic disparities, state power abuses, as Somalis suffered all that and any system outside of it is irrelevant.

We copied unitary structure from colonial, isaguna mid kale foreign system buu gacanta ku wata yaab weeye dadkani ma dad gumaysan always looking externally to copy/paste, even china has a system carved with chinese characteristics and look how successful it is when it addresses on ground reality.

 

[Bari🐍]

@Haragwaafi 4.5 is stupid, I agree with you there. It was devised by Djibouti's president.

 

[Haragwaafi]

Togdheer has 6 clans residing in it,
Mudug has 9, and
J Hoose has 6 (I think).

Each shall have 1 Senator in the Upper Chamber, and ? in the Lower Chamber. How will power-sharing and fair represenation work? How would seats be shared?

? I shall have to look up the actual number in the Lower House, but let us assume each region has 17 MPs.

Clan quota should be thrown out of the window and seats will be based on most to least populous districts within the region and with that we know where each clan lives.

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Haragwaafi please distinguish system failure and human failure, just becuz their bad doctors in somalia doesn't mean medicine has failed, federalism isnt bad just becuz the human element has played games with it. War waxani waa xoolo sound idea vs human problems ayuu xitaa kala qaadi karin

 

[𐒋𐒖𐒆𐒔𐒖𐒕𐒈]

Why even bother testing this mad man solution that is a foreign model and irrelevant and doesnt address somalia political state experiments, clan values, civil war era, economic disparities, state power abuses, as Somalis suffered all that and any system outside of it is irrelevant.

We copied unitary structure from colonial, isaguna mid kale foreign system buu gacanta ku wata yaab weeye dadkani ma dad gumaysan always looking externally to copy/paste, even china has a system carved with chinese characteristics and look how successful it is when it addresses on ground reality.

Oh it is an old argument, which has been proven fraught with flaws, and I am sure he thought about it hard, and might have a point, which might surprise us all.

Clan quota should be thrown out of the window and seats will be based on most to least populous districts within the region and with that we know where each clan lives.

So, we throw away the clan in the morning only to reintroduce it through the back door in the evening?

 

[DR OSMAN]

@Haragwaafi Somalia waxba kama tihid if ur not in badiyo not degmo. 80% of GDP verifies that and it's not in 'degmo' but 'miyi n baadiyo'. Your degmo model fails again. If degmo mean shit, ogaden wud not rule Kismaayo or HAGS displacing darod urbanites in hamar since they r baadiyo majority. Its all about baadiyo surroundings.

Till today PL revenues is 70% livestock and 30% imports to degmos. Livestocks are not herded in towns kkkkkk plus they have 32 dams to prove it and still hasn't fully addressed their rural water needs.

Mark my words the Garhajis will over throw tiny ha/hj becuz their BAADIYO MAJORITY if they have the weaponry. Why wud ha/hj need to unite against them if their not. Baadiyo means everything thats why.