One of the moments that clicked a lot of things for me is when I realize if goods in the horn of africa were mainly transported on the backs of camels. Then that would imply that only people who owned camels who could carry out trade and since the afar were only active in the afar triangle the only logical concluson was that trade in the horn of africa was mainly carried out by Somalis. This is born out by the intense urbanism we see in somali inhabited areas vs everywhere else.
Somali twitter vs Spanish archaeologist
- Thread starter Chaseyourdreamzz
- Start date
There is a sort of direct term for nomad that I know of. It's "Reer Guuraa", "the people of the move". But what I find interesting about it is that it sounds like any other societal strata or occupation like Reer Magaal, the people of the city, or the more generalized Reer Miyi, the people of the countryside.
It's kinda of funny how reed badiye ( an arabic word)has a negative connotation but reer miyi ( a somali word doesn't
Idilinaa
VIP
This is terrible way to frame things, the exchange of goods doesn't mean that it was multi-ethnic. Also i can understand the trade with Eritrea, Adulis to be exact but not Axumites, they were semi-landlocked. Southern Ethiopia is absolutely nonsensical, does he need a map? to see how were Bandar Khor is located.
There is so much wrong with this, but let us break this down, yall can copy and reply this to him since i don't have a twitter.
There is no concrete historical evidence that other African groups, particularly from southern Ethiopia, were directly operating as maritime traders along the Somali coast in antiquity. Here’s why:
The Somali Coast Was Dominated by Proto-Somalis, as you said .The Somali coast has been continuously occupied by the same Cushitic-speaking Somali peoples, who were the primary traders, sailors, and merchants.
Archaeological and historical records, such as those from Periplus of the Erythraean Sea (1st century AD), describe trade activity along the Somali coast but do not mention Axumites or other inland African groups directly controlling or engaging in maritime trade.
Aksumites Were Not a Maritime Empire. While the Aksumite Kingdom (100 AD–940 AD) had influence over the port of Adulis (Eritrea) and some coastal areas of modern-day Eritrea and northern Ethiopia, they were not a seafaring people. Aksum was heavily reliant on intermediaries, like the Somalis, to access Indian Ocean trade. The Axumites never controlled Somali ports like Bandar Khor, Berbera, or Zeila.
In contrast, the Somali coast had its own indigenous maritime culture and shipbuilding traditions. You have direct mentions by various classic writers about this. The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea (1st century AD) explicitly describes the Somali coast as being controlled by native inhabitants who operated their own ports and engaged in maritime trade using their own boats.
Southern Ethiopia’s Geography Makes This Claim Absurd. The idea that people from southern Ethiopia (who were mostly highland farmers or pastoralists) were maritime traders is completely baseless. These groups had no historical or geographical connection to the sea. The Ethiopian highlands are landlocked, and their societies historically relied on intermediary trade caravans(usually by Somalis or Afar/Beja), not direct maritime engagement.
Trade does not mean ethnic presence on the coast. Just because goods from other African regions reached the Somali coast doesn’t mean people from those regions were physically there.
For example, Somali traders were active in Zanzibar, but that doesn’t mean Zanzibar was ethnically Somali. Similarly, goods from Ethiopia may have reached the Somali coast, even through caravan trade, but there is no evidence of Ethiopian traders living or operating ports there.
In conclusion: The Somali coast was not some "multi-ethnic trading zone"
Idilinaa
VIP
I think Reer Guuraa could even broadly refer to caravan transporters than the term ''nomads'', it actually meant to capture mobility. It translate to those who migrate or leave on a journey.
You are right, i remember linguist Abdalla Mansur mentioned it while explaining the symbiotic dualism that Somalis carry, how the binary system of Somali culture represent an organization where two different elements combine to make a single whole.
Such as:
Miyi iyo Magaalo (countryside and city)
Cad iyo Caano(meat and milk)
Biy iyo Baad(Water and pasture)
Sab iyo Samaale (the two mythical ancestors of nearly all Somalis)
May iyo Maxaatiri(dividing Somali society according to the names of the two main dialects)
Culmo iyo Caamo(Islamic scholars and the layman)
So the town and city life just represents a complimentary extensions of country side life, and vice versa. Not something distinct or seperate.
Idilinaa
VIP
Hive mob have descended on twitter discussions, after i checked back to see it. That app is truly a cesspit or a mind hive where people descend on eachother like flocks of sheep. First of all you guys can respectfully disagree and inquire questions, but not attack and harass people. I also don't understand the push back against Somalis that do that by way of tagging the archeologists in a rant about BLM and Swahili coast. What the hell?
This is why i don't use twitter as it often devolves into hostility rather than productive debate. While it's important to challenge misinformation, it's equally crucial to engage in discussions with nuance and respect, rather than personal attacks.
Yes Somalis weren't called "Somali" 2000 years ago, but they weren't called Africans either which is even more of recent term to describe a continent and it's people. They were called Berber for the most part and that term had a direct continuity into the middle ages, with the artifact of it still present in our language and the port of Berbera.
If we take their argument to its extreme, then we shouldn't call Romans "Romans" either because Italy's population has changed over time.
But historians do refer to ancient Romans as part of Italy's historical identity, just as ancient Greeks are tied to modern Greeks.
The same logic applies to Somalis. While the exact term "Somali" may not have been used 2000 years ago, the people inhabiting the Somali coast were clearly the direct cultural and genetic ancestors of modern Somalis.
Historians often apply modern ethnic terms to ancient peoples when there is clear continuity—for example:
Persians for the Achaemenid Empire (even though they didn’t call themselves "Iranians" back then)
Chinese for the people of the Han Dynasty
Egyptians for Pharaonic Egypt
You can see there are actual historians that have zero problem of admitting this when it comes to Somalis. So it's not a radical take by ignorant Somalis who are allergic to real history
This is why i don't use twitter as it often devolves into hostility rather than productive debate. While it's important to challenge misinformation, it's equally crucial to engage in discussions with nuance and respect, rather than personal attacks.
Yes Somalis weren't called "Somali" 2000 years ago, but they weren't called Africans either which is even more of recent term to describe a continent and it's people. They were called Berber for the most part and that term had a direct continuity into the middle ages, with the artifact of it still present in our language and the port of Berbera.
If we take their argument to its extreme, then we shouldn't call Romans "Romans" either because Italy's population has changed over time.
But historians do refer to ancient Romans as part of Italy's historical identity, just as ancient Greeks are tied to modern Greeks.
The same logic applies to Somalis. While the exact term "Somali" may not have been used 2000 years ago, the people inhabiting the Somali coast were clearly the direct cultural and genetic ancestors of modern Somalis.
Historians often apply modern ethnic terms to ancient peoples when there is clear continuity—for example:
Persians for the Achaemenid Empire (even though they didn’t call themselves "Iranians" back then)
Chinese for the people of the Han Dynasty
Egyptians for Pharaonic Egypt
You can see there are actual historians that have zero problem of admitting this when it comes to Somalis. So it's not a radical take by ignorant Somalis who are allergic to real history
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I lowkey don't get what all the fuss is about. It's just some lackluster research by a researcher who's clearly wet behind the ears on the region and who at best has an "implicit racist-ish bias" as @The alchemist pointed out. But, otherwise, he seems polite, well-meaning and somewhat willing to adjust. And, again, it's a pretty irrelevant bit of research no one would read or reference other than deep Anthro nerds like us. They didn't need to blow it up like this and blow up his Twitter either. Quite absurd.
The guy is also a liberal and people are treating him as if he’s some
supremacist
TheLand
VIP
I wonder if that word is related to the Guu season, as in Guu-rar…moving during the rainy season.
I've made my peace with the fact that Somalis are for some reason an extermely reactionary people. This is partially why I suspect you see so much discussion by Somalis on stuff when they're intrested in a topic.
Idilinaa
VIP
I think it's the app, that makes people act reactionary.
Somali should do their own independent work, and put out the content they prefer. Instead of complaining and harassing others about it. Make a blog post or something, publish a paper etc
Also support and learn from Somali academics and researchers. Share their work and leave the conversation to those who are educated and well versed.
Foreign researchers or traveler or documentary maker or what have you will come with their own incentives, implicit biases, world view and separate motives. A lot of times not even malicious intent. I am sure some of the motive is they came for adventure and discovery.
It's not their job to communicate what we think and know. It's our experience, its our culture, its our land why do they expect someone else to come and educate us about it? and be 100% accurate and inclusive in their take? They can add to our understanding but it should be more driven , corrected, re-balanced by us (we are the source material) and we should approach in a collaborative way.
I also think much of the misunderstandings about Somali history and development can be cleared up by understanding our geographical landscape, climate and our economic adaptability to it. You be surprised how much wrong people get about that and not understand how it shaped us apart from other Africans.
I am going to post a part 2 to this thread: That will cover climate adaptability, topographical benefits, hydrological resources, and environmental resilience.
Somalia's Historical Geographical Advantages over Sub-Saharan Africa: (Summary) Part 1
I was asked to make this one last thread that i had planned, before i exit. I shared this video to @Midas in another thread, but then i came to realize that many of the setbacks and geographical disadvantages underscored in this video for Sub-Saharan Africa does not apply to Somalia at all...
www.somalispot.com
What @Midas said is also equally true, there is much that will be clarified to us once we collect the private manuscripts and documents etc in people's possession.
Inshallah soon.
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Idilinaa
VIP
We should maybe train our people to be less opinionated. We can't be chiming in on every public discussion out there, especially we need to understand our limitations in terms of expertise and subject knowledge.
Even somali scholars in the 90s or 2000s worked under the same misunderstandings. A lot of the very influential ones like mukhtar still do.
Idilinaa
VIP
A lot of that unfortunately links back to the war and political situation in Somalia, they project backward to reinterpret things to fit that.
Someone should send him that Ajami manuscript, you shared in that thread
A manuscripts of xeer cisse from 1814
It's amazing what you can find my crawling through somali social media. This guy apparently found a somali ajami manuscript of xeer cisse from 1814. That's 211 years ago.
www.somalispot.com
Since they are linguist it might reveal something to them about our language.
The alchemist
VIP
I was going to post something that was deleted. But these Spanish guys are not that nice and I will probably write something conveying the same things.
I consider that guy a scumbag. He removed a picture from X where he was mocking the Afar huts by juxtaposing some highly elaborate Early Modern architecture. These are Europeanists through and through. Remember, the reason they cannot be hostile to people on X is because of PR reasons. It would not look good to argue your true views when they give you curtesy of working in their land. They calculatively try to play nice but this spesific guys work and the others to lesser but noteworthy extent speaks the truth.
I remember he had a cringe description where he claimed he was an independent researcher (a red flag in these contexts), and was bragging about how he is the type to never get funding (clearly because of the content of what he writes).
Let me give you a sneak peak into this guys operations and tell me if it so well-meaning:
Anti-infrastructural ethos... Subversive mobility? Notice how he quotes Burton, an Orientalist (and Pankhurst) even including where he called us savages (in what is supposed to be an academic paper) to set an example of how we were a people allergic to anything structural (this Rubial guy quoted this very thing in two separate papers, so you know he is desperate and limited in evidence when the material evidence shows less damage than probably all regions, proven by their very observations). This Rubial scumbag used an orientalist to state what he wanted without any evidence, placing Francis Burton, an unprofessional layman traveler with a lot of racial biases and evil contempt for Somalis in the typical imperial European fashion, as an authority of everything Somali (they quote Burton several times).
He really said, they destroyed the stone tower because it was seen by other clans as an entity that threatened their liberties. It was not about territorial competition and resources, but liberty? Really? Everything makes sense when you realize these people think Somalis are severely unintelligent and that they can't fathom our historical ways gave rise to the rich and unique history so they are walking in extreme dissonance, which all makes sense why they use the nomad distinguisher. It's a tool to capture their nonsense in that bag while divorcing everything else as its separate existence.
Their very work pointed this out:
That has been noticed in all the sites that was under the Ifat-Adal horizon, exept for one, the latter of which we know litte of the extent, size and signifcance. They aknowledged that the material culture showed no damage indicating conflict throuhout the existence of the buildings all the way to the end and abandonment.
The irony of the guy, grain storage systems were a thing in Somali history, tracing all the way back beyond 5000 years ago in Nubia.
This is tied to other semi-deleted text that I mentioned that went in the same racist direction, in a very foul way, I must say, but in a different paper.
This Rubial guys whole hypothesis is that Somalis had an ideology that was not conducive to stability and
Have in mind where they saw permanent infrastructure and yet writes this garbage:
"Even the most innocent form of permanent architecture is seen as a potential political menace."
By the way, this guy is not some hobbyist type. Somehow he has access to publish in prestegious jurnals despite being an independent researcher, as he attaches himself to groups that fund. And since the archeological work is so nascent, people are going to cite these people the most since archeologists and historians build upon body of work.
"In the territory now occupied by the de facto state of Somaliland and eastern Ethiopia, short-lived urban-based states existed between the thirteenth and sixteenth centuries, a flash in a long stateless history (Fauvelle et al., 2017, Chekroun and Hirsch, 2020)."
He dedicated the contradiction in a sneaky way. The thing is, this guy is so unprofessional, he has not defined what he means by "state."
Let me actually give you a few notes on what I read in a new paper about Ferdowsa:
Upon searching for new research regarding Somali material history, one new field study by Torres et al. 2024, reveals now-claimed the most comprehensive expatiated permanent inhabited medieval urban-living economic environment known to date in the Somali and Ethiopian region in Fardowsa, central Somaliland, near Sheikh.
Material carbon-date testing of the structural architecture reveals consistent use of built living spaces during the Adal Sultanate, between the late 14th to nascent 17th century. The house design typology fit neatly with broader regional Somaliland constructions, principally capturing a regional horizon.
Size measurements of the houses in Fardowsa and arrangments of their forms along a northwest-southeast axis reveal an economic establishment greater than any other urban site thus encountered within hinterland Somaliland. City-form deliberation integrated within the establishment of the buildings offers insight into how the inhabitants had an urban-type long-term objective in mind through such construction organization.
Situated in a strategic position, trade caravans would place the town as a sub-regional economic capture-point, where pastoralist networks elevated the concentration of prestige and wealth, culminating into a busy hub of prosperity (I will delve more into the issue of how this is framed by the study below). The import-driven economy showed a big material presence in the houses showing evidence of trade with East Asia, Southeast Asia, India, West Asia general, Persia, Arabia, and Egypt -- underscoring the historic continuity of the Indian Ocean and Red Sea trade.
The writer of the article does not understand how wealthy Somalis own a lot of camels and delegate them to their family members from their hometown while they live in urban areas for business centralization. These prestige Ferdowsa inhabitants would not have a bunch of camels around while dealing with trade unless the camels were used directly as beasts of burden for the caravan (highly likely), but they would exist within the cultural milieu as a symbol of wealth, handled far away from the town itself, a vast region unstudied by the archaeologists.
Now, delving into the peculiarity of how nomadism is defined in this context. Here they attempt to reconcile their garbage theory of anti-infrastructural anarchic peripheral nomads (a disproven phenomenon by their very work) with the overwhelming evidence of regional harmony, which is that they set a new conditional benefit-based entanglement, where gains for the nomads made them unwilling to destroy the infrastructure. These people are so stuck in their nonsense that, instead of just rethinking their garbage assumption, they rather add new layers of conditions to reconcile how the data contradict their perception.
Either way, that paper was of a higher standard when it comes to all else investigation, dealing with matters of regional material alone, typological classification, trade-spesific links and dating.
The Polish team usually focuses on Nubia as it pertains to Greco-Roman relations or Christian period times. It seems they get funding only as far as it indirectly relates to their history. But if you go to their page, they are nice enough to give out free books on the work in medieval Nubia.
What we need is the same professionalism we see in the high-quality book we have, The Oxford Handbook of Ancient Nubia. Hands down, the best knowledge composition out there and it is where I seek to find a wealth of information, with rich citation listing.
To mention an example of the best knowledge composition, conveying a wealth of information with impeccable professionalism, The Oxford Handbook Of Ancient Nubia is, hands down, the best book out there, building elaborate perspectives with region-centered focus, and undoing the harm of Egyptology without reactionary incompetence.
Had they worked in the Somali region, based on the justified excuse that we are an extension of the Nubian world, we'd enjoy better formal bridging of knowledge gaps, setting up a good foundation (as all relevant pieces are Nubian related), through the wealth of knowledge gathered, providing a baseline for the myriad of expressions and trajectories that give rise in the Somali peninsula, limiting the absurd wiggle-room of barbaric attempts we see here.
The alchemist
VIP
I was writing further and exceeded the word limit.
People don't understand, at the time we arrived in the region, the places were more rich in fauna and flora, and we were basically a minor tribe, a big family. People were eating well and there was no need to establish anything else but living as pastoralists as wealth was there. Milk and honey and all that.
This was the climate:
We entered a lacustrine region, there was environmental abundance for a single tribe of people, some arid conditions which were good for pastoralism (aridity has a good function) but much greener with unique diverse vegetation. We had rapid populational explosion, then the rest was history. It makes sense why we see the haplogroup T people came with several female lineages since there was wealth on the land. Subsequently, trade was established, stretching inland modern Ethiopia which would just be networks of Somalis drawing resources exchanging values, being probably the most globalized region at the moment.
I have a theory that agro-pastoralism was more of the norm back then, given that around sometime later, historical farming groups within the Somali language group, established farming in southern Somalia. I think those people migrated south upon a drying region. They say Af May split from af Maxaa speakers around 1600 years ago. Notice that it was around that time the core lacustrine period ended. My theory is that we were agro-pastoralists, or some sub-clan were farming-oriented while others were pastoralists and they exchanged value through trade, thus we had specializations already forming. I think it was more of a mixed bag of agro-pastoralism, people fitting in the mixed-bad center, with pastoral ideology persisting culturally and symbolically.
In the future, they will probably find evidence of farming (if that is possible), and they will also allude to how minor peoples held disproportionate amounts of livestock, like really high per household. The Y-DNA shows rapid diversification, meaning people had a rapid population rise. These late Sabaean types who were probably elites came over to the Somali side to indulge in wealth and intermarried quickly with wealthy clans, receiving quick cultural transmission, assimilating into the Somali traditions within-tribe while at the same time retaining legitimacy as a Somali clan within that. We know something like that had to have been the case since we don't see Arabian ancestry really making a significant dent, i.e., no continual separate population growth for them on the land. Also, it seems like these Southern Arabians were of some kind of elite pedigree that existed at the terminal stage of the ancient Arabian civilizations like Saba and the related kingdoms, probably coming fora better life in decline and turbulence with wealth and opportunity existing in the northern Somali region.
People don't understand, at the time we arrived in the region, the places were more rich in fauna and flora, and we were basically a minor tribe, a big family. People were eating well and there was no need to establish anything else but living as pastoralists as wealth was there. Milk and honey and all that.
This was the climate:
We entered a lacustrine region, there was environmental abundance for a single tribe of people, some arid conditions which were good for pastoralism (aridity has a good function) but much greener with unique diverse vegetation. We had rapid populational explosion, then the rest was history. It makes sense why we see the haplogroup T people came with several female lineages since there was wealth on the land. Subsequently, trade was established, stretching inland modern Ethiopia which would just be networks of Somalis drawing resources exchanging values, being probably the most globalized region at the moment.
I have a theory that agro-pastoralism was more of the norm back then, given that around sometime later, historical farming groups within the Somali language group, established farming in southern Somalia. I think those people migrated south upon a drying region. They say Af May split from af Maxaa speakers around 1600 years ago. Notice that it was around that time the core lacustrine period ended. My theory is that we were agro-pastoralists, or some sub-clan were farming-oriented while others were pastoralists and they exchanged value through trade, thus we had specializations already forming. I think it was more of a mixed bag of agro-pastoralism, people fitting in the mixed-bad center, with pastoral ideology persisting culturally and symbolically.
In the future, they will probably find evidence of farming (if that is possible), and they will also allude to how minor peoples held disproportionate amounts of livestock, like really high per household. The Y-DNA shows rapid diversification, meaning people had a rapid population rise. These late Sabaean types who were probably elites came over to the Somali side to indulge in wealth and intermarried quickly with wealthy clans, receiving quick cultural transmission, assimilating into the Somali traditions within-tribe while at the same time retaining legitimacy as a Somali clan within that. We know something like that had to have been the case since we don't see Arabian ancestry really making a significant dent, i.e., no continual separate population growth for them on the land. Also, it seems like these Southern Arabians were of some kind of elite pedigree that existed at the terminal stage of the ancient Arabian civilizations like Saba and the related kingdoms, probably coming fora better life in decline and turbulence with wealth and opportunity existing in the northern Somali region.
Well, I low-key have had my faith in Western higher education restored given that no one among them wants to touch this cowardly turd. Otherwise, absolute banger posts as usual. Shall devour more voraciously when I get home.
