Sudan autosomal study

[Menelik III]

Your opinion is noted. Please come back when you have data to contribute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalis

"According to an autosomal DNA study by Hodgson et al. (2014), the Afro-Asiatic languages were likely spread across Africa and the Near East by an ancestral population(s) carrying a newly identified non-African genetic component, which the researchers dub the "Ethio-Somali". This Ethio-Somali component is today most common among Afro-Asiatic-speaking populations in the Horn of Africa. It reaches a frequency peak among ethnic Somalis, representing the majority of their ancestry. The Ethio-Somali component is most closely related to the Maghrebi non-African genetic component, and is believed to have diverged from all other non-African ancestries at least 23,000 years ago. On this basis, the researchers suggest that the original Ethio-Somali carrying population(s) probably arrived in the pre-agricultural period from the Near East, having crossed over into northeastern Africa via the Sinai Peninsula. The population then likely split into two branches, with one group heading westward toward the Maghreb and the other moving south into the Horn.[182] Ancient DNA analysis indicates that this foundational ancestry in the Horn region is akin to that of the Neolithic farmers of the southern Levant.[183]"

This would have been E1b1b. M-215/ E-V-32 divides out at Kush and then heads south, up the Nile as a consequence of the various invasions.

Keep your politics out of this.

I don't know where your obsession with claiming this obvious lie. Kush literally dates to around 2k bce. There were already Ethiopic language speakers by around 2500 bce. There was also a kingdom that dates back to the same time as Kush. Every single piece of evidence suggests that your theory is baseless.

Now one has to wonder why you go at such lengths to defame Ethiopian history

 

[Apollo]

Literally all this @Grant guy does is read wikipedia quotes and never the actual studies. Lazy senile man.

 

[Prince Abubu]

I don't see anyone claiming Morroco or Libya, I wonder why? If anything, I'm still puzzled by everyone's fascination with a defunct civilization. It's 2017, move on. I'm tired of seeing the symbolism everywhere. The obsession with Babylon and Egypt are sad. I'd be reluctant to claim Kerma, Punt or Azania.

Egypt isn't even that old ( roughly 5,000 years) and that was only the Archaic period. Mesopotamia is 6,500 years old. During this time you still had dark-skinned Europeans walking the Earth. What have humans been doing so long? Think about it. Nothing special. Even if native African groups lived in Egypt not much was going on. It was the same in Europe too. Don't people understand that knowledge doesn't exist in a vacuum and if you want to advance you must borrow from others.

The Egyptians weren't even that impressive. China and India have a bigger impact on world history.

 

[Grant]

I don't know where your obsession with claiming this obvious lie. Kush literally dates to around 2k bce. There were already Ethiopic language speakers by around 2500 bce. There was also a kingdom that dates back to the same time as Kush. Every single piece of evidence suggests that your theory is baseless.

Now one has to wonder why you go at such lengths to defame Ethiopian history

Ethiopian language and history? You have a very strange view of the Sudan.

by Alistair Boddy-Evans
Updated October 06, 2017

The Kingdom of Kush (or Cush) was a powerful ancient state that existed (twice) in what is now the northern part of Sudan. The second Kingdom, which lasted from 1000 B.C. until 400 A.D., with its Egyptian-like pyramids, is the better known and studied of the two, but it was preceded by an earlier Kingdom that between 2000 and 1500 B.C. was an epicenter of trade and innovation.

Kerma: the First Kingdom of Kush
The first Kingdom of Kush, also known as Kerma, is one of if not the oldest African states outside of Egypt.


It developed around the settlement of Kerma (just above the third cataract on the Nile, in Upper Nubia). Kerma arose around 2400 B.C. (during the Egyptian Old Kingdom), and had become the capital of the Kush Kingdom by 2000 B.C.

Kerma-Kush reached its zenith between 1750 and 1500 B.C.; a time known as Classical Kerma. Kush flourished most when Egypt was at its weakest, and the last 150 years of the Classical Kerma period overlap with a time of upheaval in Egypt known as the Second Intermediate Period (1650 to 1500 B.C.). During this era, Kush had access to gold mines and traded extensively with its northern neighbors, generating significant wealth and power.

The resurgence of a united Egypt with the 18th Dynasty (1550 to 1295 B.C.) brought this bronze-age kingdom of Kush to an end. New Kingdom Egypt (1550 to 1069 B.C.) established control as far south as the fourth cataract and created the post of Viceroy of Kush, governing Nubia as a separate region (in two parts: Wawat and Kush).


The Second Kingdom of Kush
Over time, Egyptian control over Nubia declined, and by the 11th century B.C., the Viceroys of Kush had become independent kings. During the Egyptian Third Intermediate Period a new Kushite kingdom emerged, and by 730 B.C., Kush had conquered Egypt right up to the shores of the Mediterranean.


The Kushite Pharoah Piye (reign: c. 752-722 B.C.) established the 25th Dynasty in Egypt.

Conquest and contact with Egypt had already shaped Kush culture, though. This second Kingdom of Kush erected pyramids, worshiped many Egyptian gods, and called its rulers Pharaohs, though the art and architecture of Kush retained distinctively Nubian characteristics. Due to this blend of difference and similarity, some have called Kushite rule in Egypt, the "Ethiopian Dynasty," but it was not to last. In 671 B.C. Egypt was invaded by the Assyrians, and by 654 B.C. they had driven the Kush back into Nubia.

Meroe
Kush remained safe behind the desolate landscape south of Aswan, developing a separate language and variant architecture. It did, however, maintain the pharaonic tradition. Eventually, the capital was moved from Napata south to Meroe where a new 'Merotic' kingdom developed. By 100 A.D. it was in decline and was destroyed by Axum in 400 A.D.

Sources

• Hafsaas-Tsakos, Henriette. "The Kingdom of Kush: An African Centre on the Periphery of the Bronze Age World System," Norwegian Archaeological Review 42.1 (2009): 50-70.
• Wilford, John Noble. "Scholars Race to Recover a Lost Kingdom on the Nile," New York Times, June 19, 2007.

 

[Sophisticate]

The Egyptians weren't even that impressive. China and India have a bigger impact on world history.

That explains your avatar. Question - do you have a bidar with a man bun?

 

[Menelik III]

Ethiopian language and history? You have a very strange view of the Sudan.

by Alistair Boddy-Evans
Updated October 06, 2017

The Kingdom of Kush (or Cush) was a powerful ancient state that existed (twice) in what is now the northern part of Sudan. The second Kingdom, which lasted from 1000 B.C. until 400 A.D., with its Egyptian-like pyramids, is the better known and studied of the two, but it was preceded by an earlier Kingdom that between 2000 and 1500 B.C. was an epicenter of trade and innovation.

Kerma: the First Kingdom of Kush
The first Kingdom of Kush, also known as Kerma, is one of if not the oldest African states outside of Egypt.


It developed around the settlement of Kerma (just above the third cataract on the Nile, in Upper Nubia). Kerma arose around 2400 B.C. (during the Egyptian Old Kingdom), and had become the capital of the Kush Kingdom by 2000 B.C.

Kerma-Kush reached its zenith between 1750 and 1500 B.C.; a time known as Classical Kerma. Kush flourished most when Egypt was at its weakest, and the last 150 years of the Classical Kerma period overlap with a time of upheaval in Egypt known as the Second Intermediate Period (1650 to 1500 B.C.). During this era, Kush had access to gold mines and traded extensively with its northern neighbors, generating significant wealth and power.

The resurgence of a united Egypt with the 18th Dynasty (1550 to 1295 B.C.) brought this bronze-age kingdom of Kush to an end. New Kingdom Egypt (1550 to 1069 B.C.) established control as far south as the fourth cataract and created the post of Viceroy of Kush, governing Nubia as a separate region (in two parts: Wawat and Kush).


The Second Kingdom of Kush
Over time, Egyptian control over Nubia declined, and by the 11th century B.C., the Viceroys of Kush had become independent kings. During the Egyptian Third Intermediate Period a new Kushite kingdom emerged, and by 730 B.C., Kush had conquered Egypt right up to the shores of the Mediterranean.


The Kushite Pharoah Piye (reign: c. 752-722 B.C.) established the 25th Dynasty in Egypt.

Conquest and contact with Egypt had already shaped Kush culture, though. This second Kingdom of Kush erected pyramids, worshiped many Egyptian gods, and called its rulers Pharaohs, though the art and architecture of Kush retained distinctively Nubian characteristics. Due to this blend of difference and similarity, some have called Kushite rule in Egypt, the "Ethiopian Dynasty," but it was not to last. In 671 B.C. Egypt was invaded by the Assyrians, and by 654 B.C. they had driven the Kush back into Nubia.

Meroe
Kush remained safe behind the desolate landscape south of Aswan, developing a separate language and variant architecture. It did, however, maintain the pharaonic tradition. Eventually, the capital was moved from Napata south to Meroe where a new 'Merotic' kingdom developed. By 100 A.D. it was in decline and was destroyed by Axum in 400 A.D.

Sources

• Hafsaas-Tsakos, Henriette. "The Kingdom of Kush: An African Centre on the Periphery of the Bronze Age World System," Norwegian Archaeological Review 42.1 (2009): 50-70.
• Wilford, John Noble. "Scholars Race to Recover a Lost Kingdom on the Nile," New York Times, June 19, 2007.

What does this even have to do with anything? Does wiki pay you or...?

You tried to claim some made up theory that a migration of people occurred from "kush" into the Horn. It should be obvious to you by now that this a false claim as settlements and civilization has preceded kush by many thousands of years.

You're akin to hoteps who have no history , so they rewrite it to fit their wishes. I just have one question. Do you believe indigenous Africans are incapable of civilization?

 

[Grant]

What does this even have to do with anything? Does wiki pay you or...?

You tried to claim some made up theory that a migration of people occurred from "kush" into the Horn. It should be obvious to you by now that this a false claim as settlements and civilization has preceded kush by many thousands of years.

You're akin to hoteps who have no history , so they rewrite it to fit their wishes. I just have one question. Do you think indigenous Africans are incapable of civilization?

Menelik,

You are just oblivious. That last quote was https://www.thoughtco.com/alistair-boddy-evans-42919.

People do move.

Are you of the opinion that only the Semites of Ethiopia had civilization? Kindly disabuse yourself:

http://www.pbs.org/show/africas-great-civilizations/

 

[Prince Abubu]

That explains your avatar. Question - do you have a bidar with a man bun?

I don't have a bidaar, they don't exist in my family. But I can't grow hair long enough for a bun either. I've always wanted cornrows but my hair is too short. I guess I can always shave my head and grow a Fu-Manchu.

 

[Apollo]

I don't have a bidaar, they don't exist in my family.

Every Somali family has at least a couple of bidaar men. Don't lie.

 

[Menelik III]

Menelik,

You are just oblivious. That last quote was https://www.thoughtco.com/alistair-boddy-evans-42919.

People do move.

Are you of the opinion that only the Semites of Ethiopia had civilization? Kindly disabuse yourself:

http://www.pbs.org/show/africas-great-civilizations/

You still didn't answer my question. I was arguing that kush was indegnous as in non Afroasiatic.

The reason why I bring up when Ethiopic languages arose is because it's more or less a time frame of "ancientness". The agew and zagwe empire are apart of Ethiopian history and are a continuation of earlier kingdoms (D'mt, Aksum).

Ps Ethio-Semitic languages are indigenous.

 

[Apollo]

Ps Ethio-Semitic languages are indigenous.

Ethiosemitic languages came from Yemen.

And Semitic came from the Levant if you go back even further.

 

[Sophisticate]

I don't have a bidaar, they don't exist in my family. But I can't grow hair long enough for a bun either. I've always wanted cornrows but my hair is too short. I guess I can always shave my head and grow a Fu-Manchu.

If you want hair growth, my advice is rosemary and/or cedarwood oils. However, cornrows died out eons ago. It's not 2003. Plus, hooyo would beat you down with a dacas.

 

[Prince Abubu]

Every Somali family has at least a couple of bidaar men. Don't lie.

Nope. My immediate family were blessed with a full set of hair. All my uncles and cousins. The worst we have is widow's peak like Vegeta. Don't be jealous. Some people have hair, some people have height.

 

[Bahal]

Every Somali family has at least a couple of bidaar men. Don't lie.

Out of my entire extended family, we have only 1 guy with a bidaar that came with age.

My hairline hasn't and will not retreat an inch



Holding the line until they put me in the ground

 

[Malaki]

@DeathWish citing studies from 1948. Ancient Egyptians had even less African ancestry than Egyptians alive today. Modern Egyptians are basically the same as the ancient Egyptians with the only difference being that the former posses more Sub Saharan ancestry due to the slave trade.

Literally no one takes anythig published before the advent of genetic sequencing seriously on the genetic composition of the Egyptians. Egypt has more in common with Mesopotamia and Greece than with Subsaharan Africa, that much is clear.

Do you even know the samples used for that study? It wasn't representative according to those who took the test. A sample from cairo-Lower Middle Egypt in the Hykos (Asiatic) period is hardly 'Ancient Egyptian'.

@DeathWish
Your too much of an Afro-centrist for anyone to take you seriously.

 

[Menelik III]

Ethiosemitic languages came from Yemen.

And Semitic came from the Levant if you go back even further.

Yes the influence came from outside, but the languages and their development are purely indigenous. It's not like we are speaking their language or any language that was ever spoken there. Ps it's been confirmed that Ethiopic languages do not hail from Sabean. So the original influence has not been confirmed.

 

[Prince Abubu]

Yes the influence came from outside, but the languages and their development are purely indigenous. It's not like we are speaking their language or any language that was ever spoken there. Ps it's been confirmed that Ethiopic languages do not hail from Sabean. So the original influence has not been confirmed.

Give it up dude. Xabashis aren't indigenous to the horn. You descend from Semitic invaders.

 

[Apollo]

Yes the influence came from outside, but the languages and their development are purely indigenous. It's not like we are speaking their language or any language that was ever spoken there. Ps it's been confirmed that Ethiopic languages do not hail from Sabean. So the original influence has not been confirmed.

Only Nilo-Saharan, Omotic, and Cushitic are native to Bronze Age Ethiopia. Semitic is the new kid on the block.

 

[Menelik III]

Only Nilo-Saharan, Omotic, and Cushitic are native to Bronze Age Ethiopia. Semitic is the new kid on the block.

I didn't deny this, but it was there during the Bronze Age.

 

[Menelik III]

Give it up dude. Xabashis aren't indigenous to the horn. You descend from Semitic invaders.

Now we are your overlords

You're like a broken record