The futuh al habash changed the trajectory of somaliweyn true or false ?

[Internet Nomad]

Flipping conspiracy nut Joe Rogan is not a good source for anything.

If you reverse image search that image you will find a description of this:


It's just a survey of funeral mounds. People burying their dead, that's why its all over the place.

Cool it with the condescending attitude i am not saying joe rogan is a good source i was showing how cool somali archeological history was spoken about for brief moment on the biggest podcast in history.

 

[Alara]

If he didnt die sudan, yemen, ethiopia and the rest would be speaking somali rn.

Gaalos: How often do you think about the Roman Empire?

Somalis: We could have had Habesha concubines feeding us dates...

 

[Idilinaa]

My bad I forgot somalis were only a rump state that traded with civilised Arabian Omanis and European empires who xooged us at any given moment.

Did you really take my post to be literal??

Omanis who was occupied and dominated by the European portuguese? Excuse me, not any given moment just 143 years and then gave up to be a vassal of Britain?
The Portuguese who were soo civilized they became pirates disrupting long standing trade and brought destruction everywhere they went? Sounds very civilized.

Or the Somalis who built an extensive commercial empire and states connecting regions diplomatically? And fought successfully to maintain their sovereignty. Yep that sounds like a rump state.

 

[Khaem]

Or the Somalis who built an extensive commercial empire and states connecting regions diplomatically? And fought successfully to maintain their sovereignty. Yep that sounds like a rump state.

You only think that Somali states were all peace and loving merchants who traded with foriegners and never warred. You get offended whenever I talk about Somalis conquering

 

[Khaem]

Flipping conspiracy nut Joe Rogan is not a good source for anything.

If you reverse image search that image you will find a description of this:



It's just a survey of funeral mounds. People burying their dead, that's why its all over the place.




Gareen was the name of the imperial family much like Walashma & Sa'ad Din .

Ajuuran was not what they called the state, it was a local nickname for taxing administrators that levy taxation from the populous and coordinating labour. It comes from the Arabic word Ashuur (Taxation) = Ashuuran basically.

It's similar to what is described in Futuh in these passages:

Then the emirs and the sultan replied, motivated by fear of the imam Ahmad,
may the Most High God have mcrcy upon him, ‘We agree with what you have said
to us about this matter, and we will not oppose you.' Thereupon the imam Ahmad
sent one of his administrative officers to the [better off] people of the country, to
the cattle owners and to the farmers, to collect the alms tax from them.


Other times it's not just administrative officers that are sent out to collect tax. You read Imam Ahmed coordinating agricultural production directly:

The storyteller; may God have mcrcy upon him, says: So the Qur’anic teacher Abu Bakr reached the imam Ahmad who was in Zarba, sitting and giving commands to agricultural workers, ‘Do this and do that'. He knew nothing [of this matter] and had heard no news. Then the Qur'anic teacher Abu Bakr handed over their letter, and he read it and understood its contents. The imam then said to the Qur'anic teacher Abu Bakr. ‘Return to them and tell them that what they want is vile, but let them do what they desire. I shall leave the country to them/


Locals didn't call their state Awdal or Mogadishu either, those were name of cheif commercial cities that outsiders knew them through. Their administrative capitals where centered somewhere else.

It's like no greeks called the eastern Roman empire "Byzantium" until western scholars starting calling it that during the renaissance.

But there is nothing wrong with modern people referring to the states as. Adal, Ifat, Mogadishu and Ajuraan.

What are we suppose to call it them?
The Kingdom of Sa'ad din? Let's just stick with Adal sxb don't complicate it for no reason.

 

[Idilinaa]

You only think that Somali states were all peace and loving merchants who traded with foriegners and never warred. You get offended whenever I talk about Somalis conquering

That's not what i think, thats what the history shows and they traded mostly with eachother not just with foreigners. Majority of Somali trade was handled internally. Never warred is not what i claimed either, much of the war between us and Amhara/Abyssinians was about access to trade routes.

You made a similar thread espousing the same nonsense about ''Conquering'' like it's clockwork, i explained to you the same thing then as well:

You can ask the opposite why didn't Yemen, Axum or Sudan, Egypt etc Conquere and invade Somalia? or Even the Greeks/Roman that visited it? Why didn't China sail across the Indian ocean and conquer ports & stuff? The Mughals even?
They didn't need to. They could get what they wanted from us and other groups by just trading with them and opening up communication channels. Likewise same for Awdal or Gareen even if they had the capability do it.

Free trade/movement creates peace , diplomacy and cooperation which has been the story of Somalis at large. Military invasions and wars happen when this is prevented and people compete for access.

Their presence in Madagascar or Sofala were not a trading ports at all, those were trade colonies intended to extract resources from it.

Not much different than what i described happening with Majerteen Sultanate in the 1800s with their forlay into the red sea and other indian ocean territories.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

If anyone else has questions about the period, and don't want to wank around with exaggerations, reaches and misinformation , like the post above me and throughout this thread.

Feel free to ask me whenever.

I dont think youre being honest, you have a very dismissive atitude and undertones of anti-somali. What is your personal origin?

 

[Zak12]

While the impacts of the post-Futuh were devastating to the region, I wouldn't say it changed the trajectory Somaliweyn. European colonialism did far more damage to Somalis than any war hundreds of years ago did.

 

[Idilinaa]

I dont think youre being honest, you have a very dismissive atitude and undertones of anti-somali. What is your personal origin?

Not only do people here exaggerate/overhype in their pretend game of cosplaying as over the top Somali nationalists that are interested in Somali history but then they peddle back and levy character attacks at the same group. So the dishonesty lies on yall.

Whereas i remain evidence/detail oriented and try to remain partial or objective in my analysis , always about sincere inquiry.

 

[Three Moons]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Idilinaa]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

It wasn't the Adal -Abyssinian war that made the region collapse. There was wars throughout the whole medieval period before that 1 war for 500 years even succession battles, rulers are disposed of, replaced, killed left and right revolutions happening but strangely enough the political structure and economic system remain durable and functional.

It was the disruption of internal trade routes caused by invasions and the fracture in political leadership that caused it to collapse.

Consequently 1 century and half of decline , 1 century of rise in political consolidation with all the names you mentioned and economic activity increase and then close to 1 century of European interruption cutting into that.

What the hell is Somalid group? Bismarck of Somalia? Yall are not serious at all lmaaao

 

[Khaem]

That's not what i think, thats what the history shows and they traded mostly with eachother not just with foreigners. Majority of Somali trade was handled internally. Never warred is not what i claimed either, much of the war between us and Amhara/Abyssinians was about access to trade routes.

You made a similar thread espousing the same nonsense about ''Conquering'' like it's clockwork, i explained to you the same thing then as well:

You don't know whay you're talking about if you think majority of Somali trade was done "internally"

 

[Khaem]

It wasn't the Adal -Abyssinian war that made the region collapse. There was wars throughout the whole medieval period before that 1 war for 500 years even succession battles, rulers are diposed, replaced, killed left and right revolutions happening but strangely enough the political structure and economic system remain durable and functional.

It was disruption of internal trade routes caused by invasions and break of political leadership.

Consequently 1 century and half of decline , 1 century of rise in political consolidation with all the names you mentioned & more and trade increase and then 1 century of European interruption cutting into that.

Yes this was discussed for several pages, but the Adal Abyssinan war caused the collapse of the region.

The decades of intense war between the two empires left both states wean and recovering, which the Galla tribsemen capitalised off and launched invasions into both empires. Having Galla hordes running around the countryside side and burning down towns in the hinterlands destoryed many trade routes. Which led to the century of instability and economic decline in the horn.

How is the Adal-Abyssinia war "just 1 lf 500 conflicts"? It was an all out holy war between two empires wkth ethiopia mearly being completely wiped off the map. The war was so large it included the two global super powers of the world during the 1500s, Portugal & The Ottomans.

What the hell is Somalid group? Bismarck of Somalia? Yall are not serious at all lool

Somaloid includes groups like Renadille

 

[Idilinaa]

Yes this was discussed for several pages, but the Adal Abyssinan war caused the collapse of the region.

The decades of intense war between the two empires left both states wean and recovering, which the Galla tribsemen capitalised off and launched invasions into both empires. Having Galla hordes running around the countryside side and burning down towns in the hinterlands destoryed many trade routes. Which led to the century of instability and economic decline in the horn.

How is the Adal-Abyssinia war "just 1 lf 500 conflicts"? It was an all out holy war between two empires wkth ethiopia mearly being completely wiped off the map. The war was so large it included the two global super powers of the world during the 1500s, Portugal & The Ottomans.

The Futuh war indirectly led to the Oromo migrations that turned into large scale invasions, not because they were weakened or they capitalized of it but because the conquest caused displacement and population pressures. That's what happened and what made them migrate out in droves and their land was made inhospitable so they became a nomadic movement in search for fertile land.

Also the Futuh war was not really a clear cut holy war , it was about pushing back against an aggressor that broke a peace treaty , it was an example of bending the twig too far will lash back with destructive ferocity.

Somaloid includes groups like Renadille

Somaloid sounds like science fiction, like the word humanoid lool.

 

[Khaem]

The Futuh war indirectly led to the Oromo migrations that turned into large scale invasions, not because they were weakened or they capitalized of it but because the conquest caused displacement and population pressures. That's what happened and what made them migrate out in droves and their land was made inhospitable so they became a nomadic movement in search for fertile land.

Futuh did lead to it, do you think if the war hadn't happened the galla hordes wouldn't have been packed instantly by Adalite forces?

Also what proof is there for their land becoming inhospitable forcing a migration?

Ive spoken to many Oromo and they agree that they used their nomadic calvary to sweep through a weakened empire. This is the consensus between all scholars. Even IM lewis gets this right.

Also the Futuh war was not really a clear cut holy war , it was about pushing back against an aggressor that broke a peace treaty , it was an example of bending the twig too far will lash back with destructive ferocity.

If the Futuh wasnt a holy war thrn what is? They literally called it a Jihad against thr Christian Empire. Ahmad gurey made it a point to burn down the churches and convert ethiopians he conquered

 

[Three Moons]

“I, Idilinaa, daughter of Adal and Ajuraan, pledge this to all the peasants here with an interest in Somali history. I shall berate you with my tongue as sharp as a sword, my army of sources shall topple your castles. There will be nothing but disdain I carry for you in my heart as my superior knowledge increases with each passing day and towers above you the way a mountain dominates a valley. Flee now peasants, flee back to the dark caves of ignorance from whence you came and never return, or be met in battle with a fury that shall cloak the world in dust. This I promise you!”

 

[Idilinaa]

Futuh did lead to it, do you think if the war hadn't happened the galla hordes wouldn't have been packed instantly by Adalite forces?

Also what proof is there for their land becoming inhospitable forcing a migration?

Ive spoken to many Oromo and they agree that they used their nomadic calvary to sweep through a weakened empire. This is the consensus between all scholars. Even IM lewis gets this right.


If the Futuh wasnt a holy war thrn what is? They literally called it a Jihad against thr Christian Empire. Ahmad gurey made it a point to burn down the churches and convert ethiopians he conquered

It's similar to Barbarian invasion/migrations of Europe/Rome and the Mongol invasions across Euro-Asia. Their success was not predicated on weakness of empires and states.

What proof ? thats what is described by Bahrey the 16th century Abyssinian monk who wrote ''The History of Gallas'' eye witness since lived in a village near it where the first spill out happened and the Portuguese like Almeida that described their migrations and mapped their intial areas. At first it was just short raids/ or incursion on the fringes and they would touch back to their home base, and then it slowly built on and escalated from there as they gained more strenght and resources.

Jihad means to struggle , it was more of a resistance. A ripple effect , after many attempts at peace and truce failed with continued aggression towards Muslims.

 

[Khaem]

It's similar to Barbarian invasion/migrations of Europe/Rome and the Mongol invasions across Euro-Asia. Their success was not predicated on weakness of empires and states.

What proof ? thats what is described by Bahrey the 16th century Abyssinian monk who wrote ''The History of Gallas'' eye witness since lived in a village near it where the first spill out happened and the Portuguese like Almeida that described their migrations and mapped their intial areas. At first it was just short raids/ or incursion on the fringes and they would touch back to their home base, and then it slowly built on and escalated from there as they gained more strenght and resources.

So you're saying germanic tribes conquered western Rome not because the roman state became weak and it's military grounded down over a century. But because some Germanics who jumped around in the mud and had no urban civilisation were just that superior that even Rome couldn't beat them at their usual strength?

You didn't provide a source that the oromo invasions wasn't because of Adalite weakness. You just told me the methods the Gallas used to fight Adalites. Through nomadic calvary hit and run raids, does this seem like a force that was powerful enough to defeat the Adalite army? That slaughtered even Portugees knights and had the heads of their generals displayed in Harar?

Jihad means to struggle , it was more of a resistance. A ripple effect , after many attempts at peace and truce failed with continued aggression towards Muslims.

"A resistance" nigga you call ethiopia having their churches burned, habasha slaves overflowing markets in Arabia so much we have second hand Arabic sources on it, mass conversions by adalite forces and Ethiopian Emperor fleeing deep into the mountain as his cities were razed or conquered by Adalite Forces a simple "resistance"??

 

[Idilinaa]

So you're saying germanic tribes conquered western Rome not because the roman state became weak and it's military grounded down over a century. But because some Germanics who jumped around in the mud and had no urban civilisation were just that superior that even Rome couldn't beat them at their usual strength?

You didn't provide a source that the oromo invasions wasn't because of Adalite weakness. You just told me the methods the Gallas used to fight Adalites. Through nomadic calvary hit and run raids, does this seem like a force that was powerful enough to defeat the Adalite army? That slaughtered even Portugees knights and had the heads of their generals displayed in Harar?

"A resistance" nigga you call ethiopia having their churches burned, habasha slaves overflowing markets in Arabia so much we have second hand Arabic sources on it, mass conversions by adalite forces and Ethiopian Emperor fleeing deep into the mountain as his cities were razed or conquered by Adalite Forces a simple "resistance"??

What the heck are you on about , because Romans had stone buildings it should prevent them from being continuously raided and then invaded?

Are you listening to yourself? There is nothing you can do against a growing hordes of people that become increasingly organized and if anything urban settlements and agricultural hubs makes you into a fixed target. The constant attacks ends up depleting the defenses as well.

however, in addition to the pressure of outside populations, it was also the contact and confrontation with the Roman imperial civilization (its wealth, language, weapons, and organization) that prompted the Germanic peoples to restructure and organize themselves into more robust and permanent social systems, capable of better defending themselves or seriously attacking the Empire

Rome, for its part, had been trying since the first century A.D. to prevent the penetration of the barbarians by entrenching itself behind the limes, that is, the continuous line of fortifications extended between the Rhine and the Danube and built precisely to contain the pressure of the Germanic peoples.

The breakthrough by the barbarian peoples along the limes was also facilitated by the period of severe internal instability that ran through the Roman Empire during the third century

 

[Khaem]

What the heck are you on about , because Romans had stone buildings it should prevent them from being continuously raided and then invaded?

Are you listening to yourself? There is nothing you can do against a growing hordes of people that become increasingly organized and if anything urban settlements and agricultural hubs makes you into a fixed target. The constant attacks ends up depleting the defenses as well.

What are you even arguing? That Adal simply was inferior to the Galla tribes??