The futuh al habash changed the trajectory of somaliweyn true or false ?

[Idilinaa]

What are you even arguing? That Adal simply was inferior to the Galla tribes??

I have watched it before. He starts the invasions much later not with the raids/incursions that was happening before it since the 1st AD.

His framing of migratory peaceful settlements and relations is contradicted by first hand written accounts from that period. They were evacuated on constant attacks and it was utter devastation.


Same theme is described in the Awdal chronicles, constant attacks, destruction and pillaging.

Romans much like the people of Bar Sa'adin/Harar they set up walls and fortification to defend themselves to keep out Barbarians , likewise Oromos.

They only started to forge relations and alliances with the same invaders after they successfully penetrated and overran them just out of pure survival not much different than what happened with Harar and Somalis, even with Amhara/Abyssinians in how they penetrated into their political structure and ruling dynasty.

I could make a thread another time about the full description and extent of the the initial migration and the full scale invasions and the developments it had for Oromo.

They would aquire mules, horses, cattle from Somalis and from people they plundered in 1554-62, this when they started the effective attack and to ride horses and mules. Bahrey stated that before then they used to kill people and all animals including horses and mules, except for goats and cows. In the period 1578-86 they learned about shields and iron spears and so on.

 

[Journey.]

“I, Idilinaa, daughter of Adal and Ajuraan, pledge this to all the peasants here with an interest in Somali history. I shall berate you with my tongue as sharp as a sword, my army of sources shall topple your castles. There will be nothing but disdain I carry for you in my heart as my superior knowledge increases with each passing day and towers above you the way a mountain dominates a valley. Flee now peasants, flee back to the dark caves of ignorance from whence you came and never return, or be met in battle with a fury that shall cloak the world in dust. This I promise you!”

View attachment 335223

It's not everyday you see a woman mansplaining to men. When @Idilinaa enters the chat, the hyper-nationalistic history buffs tremble in their boots.

 

[Khaem]

It's not everyday you see a woman mansplaining to men. When @Idilinaa enters the chat, the hyper-nationalistic history buffs tremble in their boots.

What did she mansplain to me

I have watched it before. He starts the invasions much later not with the raids/incursions that was happening before it since the 1st AD.

His framing of migratory peaceful settlements and relations is contradicted by first hand written accounts from that period. They were evacuated on constant attacks and it was utter devastation.


Same theme is described in the Awdal chronicles, constant attacks, destruction and pillaging.

Romans much like the people of Bar Sa'adin/Harar they set up walls and fortification to defend themselves to keep out Barbarians , likewise Oromos.

They only started to forge relations and alliances with the same invaders after they successfully penetrated and overran them just out of pure survival not much different than what happened with Harar and Somalis, even with Amhara/Abyssinians in how they penetrated into their political structure and ruling dynasty.

I could make a thread another time about the full description and extent of the the initial migration and the full scale invasions and the developments it had for Oromo.

They would aquire mules, horses, cattle from Somalis and from people they plundered in 1554-62, this when they started the effective attack and to ride horses and mules. Bahrey stated that before then they used to kill people and all animals including horses and mules, except for goats and cows. In the period 1578-86 they learned about shields and iron spears and so on.

Walahi I'm lost, I domt even know what we're arguing about anymore. What is your argument against what I said?

 

[Midas]

You guys are forgetting the most important factor was climate change which most suspect was somewhat caused by the depopulation of the americas. On top of the decline in trade due the networks shifting to the new world. It wasn't even just the horn that declined if you look at eygpt and yemen between 1600-1800 that was also an age of decline for them as well

 

[Step a side]

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A bit earlier than 1830 would have been better. By 1825-1827 the British captured Yemen, attacked Berbera and Xamar, helped the Abysinnians capture Addis too. It was a cold era.

 

[Zak12]

A bit earlier than 1830 would have been better. By 1825-1827 the British captured Yemen, attacked Berbera and Xamar, helped the Abysinnians capture Addis too. It was a cold era.

Was it the Geledi or Hiraab that drove off the British?

 

[Step a side]

Was it the Geledi or Hiraab that drove off the British?

The British once offered British protection to Mogadishu in 1828, which it refused, leading to bombings from Oman. At the time they came to the Imams in Xamar (Hiiraab) not Geledi who ruled in the interior. Geledi was allied with Zanzibar who were a British pawn

 

[Idilinaa]

What did she mansplain to me


Walahi I'm lost, I domt even know what we're arguing about anymore. What is your argument against what I said?

I am not arguing anything really. I am explaining to you the history of migratory invasions and how it came about & how it affected states and empires.

When you study history, you see a lot of common themes around the world.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

Somalia history is not to developed so u have cadaans downplaying n hiding our history while Somali Nationalists retain it. Look at what the People did in globeliteko OR something like that. Like I said, Im brining a shovel and im going to do my own archeology. No more Fake news. You can only hypothesize so much until it starts becoming unsupported history, There is no Common Theme Non-sense. Im talking to Midais And Idilina

 

[Khaem]

Somalia history is not to developed so u have cadaans downplaying n hiding our history while Somali Nationalists retain it. Look at what the People did in globeliteko OR something like that. Like I said, Im brining a shovel and im going to do my own archeology. No more Fake news. You can only hypothesize so much until it starts becoming unsupported history, There is no Common Theme Non-sense. Im talking to Midais And Idilina

Bro if you search up who built Mogadishu it shoes up Arab and Persian families. All because of that IM Lewis nigga who ruined our name. That British c*nt couldn't help but yap about Arabs about every little thing. Even the most random city in the deepest region in Galbeed he'll somehow find a way to attribute it to noble Arabians and describe its fall to being an "Invasion by Nomadic Somalis"

IM Lewis is the man who pushed hard the idea that Somalis are a nomadic people and all non-pastoralists in the Peninsula are Non-Somali.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

Bro if you search up who built Mogadishu it shoes up Arab and Persian families. All because of that IM Lewis nigga who ruined our name. That British c*nt couldn't help but yap about Arabs about every little thing. Even the most random city in the deepest region in Galbeed he'll somehow find a way to attribute it to noble Arabians and describe its fall to being an "Invasion by Nomadic Somalis"

IM Lewis is the man who pushed hard the idea that Somalis are a nomadic people and all non-pastoralists in the Peninsula are Non-Somali.

Yes, so basically during my break from this website I had an ecounter. Some guy on tiktok kept saying Ajuraan didnt exist. So I did some research. Came upon some old threads on somalispot, were talking 2018. It was Grant and another Cadaan I believe versus this guy named Factz. Now Ive heard about this guy, but Ive never really heard him talk before but wlhi seeing this guy in that thread boosted my respect for him tenfold. Now Grant, who Ive just found out passed away so I wont be cursing or insulting him, man this guy was obsessed with demoralization and downplaying of anything somali, he did this factiously too but mixing it with lies. Its pretty hard to explain, and my crazy ranting style dosent help either but I can connect this Grant guy to IM Lewis. Always attributing somali creations to, outsiders. Why though? Its to form a platform for future division in a successful somalia. Let me tell you these guys think longterm, 2-3 generations ahead. they are laying basis for division.

Thats another problem, These guys definition of a source. you see with somali history its not all to developed or researched. So that gives room for these fakes like IM Lewis and his tainted works to be taken as the 'holy grail' Astafurallah in research. IT sucks.

Sorry For the Terribly written English and rant. I disregard Gramamr

 

[Idilinaa]

Bro if you search up who built Mogadishu it shoes up Arab and Persian families. All because of that IM Lewis nigga who ruined our name. That British c*nt couldn't help but yap about Arabs about every little thing. Even the most random city in the deepest region in Galbeed he'll somehow find a way to attribute it to noble Arabians and describe its fall to being an "Invasion by Nomadic Somalis"

IM Lewis is the man who pushed hard the idea that Somalis are a nomadic people and all non-pastoralists in the Peninsula are Non-Somali.

Somalia history is not to developed so u have cadaans downplaying n hiding our history while Somali Nationalists retain it. Look at what the People did in globeliteko OR something like that. Like I said, Im brining a shovel and im going to do my own archeology. No more Fake news. You can only hypothesize so much until it starts becoming unsupported history, There is no Common Theme Non-sense. Im talking to Midais And Idilina

You guys are more in the business of downplaying Somali history by over hyping it , spamming it with misinformation and exaggerations ,in an attempt to cosplay as hyper nationalists and only mention I'M Lewis to shoehorn their past outdated beliefs

He not only believed Arab and Persians founded Mogadishu, he believed Somalis came from the Yemen coast, as Arab colonizers and pushed out Oromos and Bantus who were the true natives of Somalia. That Somalis are Arab's that mixed with Oromos and Bantu natives.

You can tell how obviously nonsensical that is given what we all know now and what is clearly documented from solely historical written accounts, but also linguistics and others fields.

Back when I'M Lewis and others wrote about Somali history. Somali studies was at it's infancy and they didn't have all the sources/information available to them at their disposal to fact check things and what was available to them was written/gathered in the political context of colonization, which greatly affected how they interpreted it and presented that information.

It was equally the same for how Western Scholars wrote about Arabs and middle eastern history and societies , i.e Orientalism

Orientalism' to refer to a general patronizing Western attitude towards Middle Eastern, Asian, and North African societies. In Said's analysis, 'the West' essentializes these societies as static and undeveloped—thereby fabricating a view of Oriental culture that can be studied, depicted, and reproduced in the service of imperial power. Implicit in this fabrication, writes Said, is the idea that Western society is developed, rational, flexible, and superior.[2] This allows 'Western imagination' to see 'Eastern' cultures and people as both alluring and a threat to Western civilization.

 

[Khaem]

You guys are more in the business of downplaying Somali history by over hyping it , spamming it with misinformation and exaggerations ,in an attempt to cosplay as hyper nationalists and only mention I'M Lewis to shoehorn their past outdated beliefs

What have I overhyped? Name one thing I made up or grossly exaggerated? I am a proud Wadani.

He not only believed Arab and Persians founded Mogadishu, he believed Somalis came from the Yemen coast, as Arab colonizers and pushed out Oromos and Bantus who were the true natives of Somalia. That Somalis are Arab's that mixed with Oromos and Bantu natives.

You can tell how obviously nonsensical that is given what we all know now and what is clearly documented from solely historical written accounts, but also linguistics and others fields.

Back when I'M Lewis and others wrote about Somali history. Somali studies was at it's infancy and they didn't have all the sources/information available to them at their disposal to fact check things and what was available to them was written/gathered in the political context of colonization, which greatly affected how they interpreted it and presented that information.

It was equally the same for how Western Scholars wrote about Arabs and middle eastern history and societies , i.e Orientalism

I have a physical copy of IM lewis' book I know all of this. But him writing down a bunch of nonsense doesn't change the fact he's the primary source for ainabi. I you search Google "who built Mogadishu" you will be met by this.

 

[CABDULWALI XASAN.]

You guys are more in the business of downplaying Somali history by over hyping it , spamming it with misinformation and exaggerations ,in an attempt to cosplay as hyper nationalists and only mention I'M Lewis to shoehorn their past outdated beliefs

He not only believed Arab and Persians founded Mogadishu, he believed Somalis came from the Yemen coast, as Arab colonizers and pushed out Oromos and Bantus who were the true natives of Somalia. That Somalis are Arab's that mixed with Oromos and Bantu natives.

You can tell how obviously nonsensical that is given what we all know now and what is clearly documented from solely historical written accounts, but also linguistics and others fields.

Back when I'M Lewis and others wrote about Somali history. Somali studies was at it's infancy and they didn't have all the sources/information available to them at their disposal to fact check things and what was available to them was written/gathered in the political context of colonization, which greatly affected how they interpreted it and presented that information.

It was equally the same for how Western Scholars wrote about Arabs and middle eastern history and societies , i.e Orientalism

Somali studies is still in its infancy and foreigners like you want to spread fake history while acting professional. No, I refuse.

And plus IM lewis coming to that conclusion is not because there was not avaliable information. It was intentional, Even though theres information there IE the somalis he was quite litterally studying. Instead out of pure cuqdad and sinister intentions he Lied. Whats to say that you arent doing the same things. I hate liars who sugarcoat their words with professional english giving the illusion that they are speaking honestly. You absolutely aren't me and a lot of other users have noticed your Sinister intentions. I mean theres clearly a will to learn somali history from you but you cannot blantaly lie about it and come to outrageous inferences and conclusions. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. It is illogical. A pattern I see with every single Ajnabi somali historian.
Tell me what is your origin and goal

 

[Idilinaa]

Somali studies is still in its infancy and foreigners like you want to spread fake history while acting professional. No, I refuse.

And plus IM lewis coming to that conclusion is not because there was not avaliable information. It was intentional, Even though theres information there IE the somalis he was quite litterally studying. Instead out of pure cuqdad and sinister intentions he Lied. Whats to say that you arent doing the same things. I hate liars who sugarcoat their words with professional english giving the illusion that they are speaking honestly. You absolutely aren't me and a lot of other users have noticed your Sinister intentions. I mean theres clearly a will to learn somali history from you but you cannot blantaly lie about it and come to outrageous inferences and conclusions. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. It is illogical. A pattern I see with every single Ajnabi somali historian.
Tell me what is your origin and goal

Somali studies have come miles away since then actually. We now know more about the region and its history.

There was available information to I'M Lewis. He had various historical descriptions and sources at his disposable. He either ignored it or misrepresented it and in the absence fabricated pieces of imaginative history. What we got from him was pieces of facts mixed with fiction.

It's not a problem with Ajanabis writing Somali history, it's not every single one either. Everything i mention is something his Western contemporaries like Herbert Lewis, ER Turton and HC Fleming at the time criticized him for in how he wrote that history

When you look at the historical written sources available to him you wouldn't draw any of these conclusions that he did from it.

What have I overhyped? Name one thing I made up or grossly exaggerated? I am a proud Wadani.

I have a physical copy of IM lewis' book I know all of this. But him writing down a bunch of nonsense doesn't change the fact he's the primary source for ainabi. I you search Google "who built Mogadishu" you will be met by this.
View attachment 335362

Britannica Kids? is a primary source for ajanabi? I am Lewis is neither a historian or an archeologist.

My advice is to simply update their source of information, for the information on the founding of Mogadishu it should be N Chittick or Ahmed Dualeh Jama who actively studied the place and sources related to it and did preliminary excavations.

And according to them Mogadishu was not founded in the 900s, the first mentions of Mogadishu in written sources was in the 12th century and neither from archeological grounds was it a significant town before then. I have shown to you all before that it was not an enclave by settlers from elsewhere but was an outpost connected to the interior development and towns, with several coastal villages intervening it and other benadiri cities.

Mediaeval Mogadishu​

 

[Khaem]

Somali studies have come miles away since then actually. We now know more about the region and its history.

There was available information to I'M Lewis. He had various historical descriptions and sources at his disposable. He either ignored it or misrepresented it and in the absence fabricated pieces of imaginative history. What you got was pieces of facts mixed with fiction.

It's not a problem with Ajanabis writing Somali history. Everything i mention is something his Western contemporaries like Herbert Lewis at the time criticized him and others for in how they wrote that history.

When you look at the historical written sources available to him you wouldn't draw any of these conclusions that he did from it.

Britannica Kids? is a primary source for ajanabi? I am Lewis is neither a historian or an archeologist.

My advice is simply update their source of information, for the information on the founding of Mogadishu it should be N Chittick or Ahmed Dualeh Jama who actively studied the place and sources related to it and did preliminary excavations.

And according to them Mogadishu was not founded in the 900s, the first mentions of Mogadishu in written sources was in the 12th century and neither from archeological grounds was it a significant town before then. I have shown to you all before that it was not an enclave by settlers from elsewhere but was an outpost connected to the interior development and towns, with several coastal villages intervening it.

Mediaeval Mogadishu​

https://www.africabib.org/rec.php?RID=189069449
https://www.africabib.org/rec.php?RID=189069449
https://www.africabib.org/rec.php?RID=189069449

I heard a story from some Somali historians who told me that IM Lewis previously tried to access private libraries but Somali families holding tnem wouldn't allow him to. I don't know the validity of it.

Also I have an account and have tried fixing Somali wikipedia pages, but a certain group of Habasha have consistently edited and removed all corrections.

 

[Idilinaa]

I heard a story from some Somali historians who told me that IM Lewis previously tried to access private libraries but Somali families holding tnem wouldn't allow him to. I don't know the validity of it.

That could very well be. Because it's personal to them.

What i do know is that when the civil war happened some families had to escape with manuscript folios.

Also I have an account and have tried fixing Somali wikipedia pages, but a certain group of Habasha have consistently edited and removed all corrections.

When i attended a Higschool program and Uni the first thing they told us was that using wikipedia was prohibited, and its not a reliable source, anybody can edit it, not just experts on the subject

People who are serious and genuine about learning Somali history or East African history will come to the right information and go through the proper channnels. So i wouldn't waste my time with wiki, it's why i have never had an account on there myself.

 

[Khaem]

That could very well be. Because it's personal to them.

What i do know is that when the civil war happened some families had to escape with manuscript folios.

Yeah I remember the earliest written manuscript by a Somali man preserved from the 1600s only came to light because a manuscript kept by a family in, Mogadishu I believe, was passed around after the civil war and eventually digitised by some historian.

The Earliest Surviving Manuscript Known Written By A Somali From 1692

Should've made a thread on this ages ago and inshallah I'll do a blog post and maybe a YouTube video on it someday but here we are: Migration, Digitization, and Preservation - A Case Study of a Somali Manuscript The oday who wrote...

www.somalispot.com

When i attended a Higschool program and Uni the first thing they told us was that using wikipedia was prohibited, and its not a reliable source, anybody can edit it, not just experts on the subject

People who are serious and genuine about learning Somali history or East African history will come to the right information and go through the proper channnels. So i wouldn't waste my time with wiki, i have never had an account on there myself.

Yes even back I'm secondary school as a younger they still never allowed us to use Wikipedia, although we still did without punishment. But the main point was that it wouldn't be allowed if we were doing certain subjects in uni.

For me. I mainly use Wikipedia If I have to just to get links to interesting sources in the references section that I then use.

But I've seen too many videos gaining tens of thousands of views about Somalis which just copy Wikipedia. Let's be real most people just surf wiki for stuff like somali history.

The red neck making the video started yapping about the Bantu expansion and said that when bantus expanded to east Africa we was enslaved and our women was married to Arab settlers who built Mogadishu and other kingdoms, and the result was Somalis. I'll try find the video

Almost everything this red neck says was diabolical

 

[Idilinaa]

Yeah I remember the earliest written manuscript by a Somali man preserved from the 1600s only came to light because a manuscript kept by a family in, Mogadishu I believe, was passed around after the civil war and eventually digitised by some historian.
View attachment 335374

The Earliest Surviving Manuscript Known Written By A Somali From 1692

Should've made a thread on this ages ago and inshallah I'll do a blog post and maybe a YouTube video on it someday but here we are: Migration, Digitization, and Preservation - A Case Study of a Somali Manuscript The oday who wrote...

www.somalispot.com

Not Mogadishu , seem to have been from from scholarly Qadi family of Leelkase in the NorthEast. I am aware of that one but i was speaking of personal ones that i know.

There is another example posted on here:

Yes even back I'm secondary school as a younger they still never allowed us to use Wikipedia, although we still did without punishment. But the main point was that it wouldn't be allowed if we were doing certain subjects in uni.

For me. I mainly use Wikipedia If I have to just to get links to interesting sources in the references section that I then use.

Thats exactly what i do i go directly to reference links all the time. But mostly i just search for article publications and books directly, i also do the same there as well.

But I've seen too many videos gaining tens of thousands of views about Somalis which just copy Wikipedia. Let's be real most people just surf wiki for stuff like somali history.

The red neck making the video started yapping about the Bantu expansion and said that when bantus expanded to east Africa we was enslaved and our women was married to Arab settlers who built Mogadishu and other kingdoms, and the result was Somalis. I'll try find the video

Almost everything this red neck says was diabolical

A right wing red neck or whatever has a his own political motive around exploiting the conflict and collapse in Somalia when he makes videos like that.

He even said we are Arabs mixed with hamites and it created the Somalis lmaaao. i don't think he got it from wikipedia, thats some pseudo science racialism jargon he searches for directly.

Aside from that, there is few of videos on the topic of Somali trade and Mogadishu development with more depth, so i wouldn't mind it. People who are genuinely interested in the topic will find their way and share. And this is the difference in what i am saying.

 

[Khaem]

Not Mogadishu , seem to have been from from scholarly Qadi family of Leelkase in the NorthEast. I am aware of that one but i was speaking of personal ones that i know.

There is another example posted on here:

Thats exactly what i do i go directly to reference links all the time. But mostly i just search for article publications and books directly, i also do the same there as well.


A right wing red neck or whatever has a his own political motive around exploiting the conflict and collapse in Somalia when he makes videos like that.

He even said we are Arabs mixed with hamites and it created the Somalis lmaaao. i don't think he got it from wikipedia, thats some pseudo science racialism jargon he searches for directly.

Aside from that, there is few of videos on the topic of Somali trade and Mogadishu development with more depth, so i wouldn't mind it. People who are genuinely interested in the topic will find their way and share. And this is the difference in what i am saying.

Yeah those videos are nice.

I'm pissed off that a big channel like that only talked about "african" though.

I haven't watched the history dose video in a while but I remember he never mentioned Somalis directly. What a shame