We are African and there was trade development with the swahili coast as well.
So he is not focusing on only Somali, which is good. Somalia or Somalis are not isolated or disconnected from the continent and other regions.
The futuh al habash changed the trajectory of somaliweyn true or false ?
- Thread starter Chaseyourdreamzz
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We are African and there was trade development with the swahili coast as well.
So he is not focusing on only Somali, which is good. Somalia or Somalis are not isolated or disconnected from the continent and other regions.
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Entire highlands was barely populated to be honest, not sure what they were fighting over when there wasn’t even a city with a population over 50,000. Seems like a waste of time.
Would have been better to focus on state building, trading, building a large city, infrastructure, supporting agriculture etc. It was the 15th century, they should have gotten ottomans to help build dozens of forts and castles in strategic areas, it’s a mountainous area after all. This would have sufficed in defending the area from habesha threat.
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They may not have any important cities but the highlands had a large rural peasantry . You can see this in the army numbers.
Even Somalis which i think our population was bigger and more spread out most them were concentrated on agricultural production, herding, fishing and trade etc and did not partake in war. You can clearly see this in the wars between the Muslims & Christians, ,the Muslims was mostly always outnumbered and the barriers Muslims had with recruitment.
Christian Highlanders would forcefully mobilize a large number of peasantry away from agricultural production in to war & army participation and their kings capital was a fluid mobile base or nomadic camps that they would move around with, to attack Muslims/Somalis who's capitals and centers were in fixed urban locations and agricultural hubs.
My guess is that they were fighting the expansion of Islam, and fighting us over access to the sea and trade routes that was in mostly Somali control and Somalis were just resisting them and trying to maintain sovereignty over their lands.
Their Solomonic founder , said outright he hates Muslims and made it their sole basis of their Christian identity and state to crusade against Muslims and other communities.
This in turn made the highlands underdeveloped economically and it also destabilized the general regions nearby who had to be on alert of incursions & war.
Administrative and military impediments of medieval Ethiopian economy
This description i saw an account post this on twitter, was echoed by an Egyptian visitor to the highlands. Which i found to be accurate and i was suprised in how it was descibed in such plain language.
@World
Aside from the nature of temporary encampment, the Abyssinian highland societies were not really that much different than early middle ages feudal Europe from 400-1100s. After the collapse of Axum.
The early middle age European socieities for example lived largely in agricultural communities without any urbanism or much commerce , with houses/huts made up of tatch, wattled , doub/mud and wood. With only churches being made of solid stone. Most peasants produced just enough to survive, with little surplus for trade or investment in economic development.
The same general constant war, raids and crusades against their neighbors characterized them as well. Which setback developments for some time.
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i don’t disagree but i’m just saying, that there was a lack of fortresses in the region. What they should have done is build many defensive fortresses across the red line in strategic areas:They may not have any important cities but the highlands had a large rural peasantry . You can see this in the army numbers.
Even Somalis which i think our population was bigger and more spread out most them were concentrated on agricultural production, herding, fishing and trade etc and did not partake in war. You can clearly see this in the wars between the Muslims & Christians, ,the Muslims was mostly always outnumbered and the barriers Muslims had with recruitment.
Christian Highlanders would forcefully mobilize a large number of peasantry away from agricultural production in to war & army participation and their kings capital was a fluid mobile base or nomadic camps that they would move around with, to attack Muslims/Somalis who's capitals and centers were in fixed urban locations and agricultural hubs.
My guess is that they were fighting the expansion of Islam, and fighting us over access to the sea and trade routes that was in mostly Somali control and Somalis were just resisting them and trying to maintain sovereignty over their lands.
Their Solomonic founder , said outright he hates Muslims and made it their sole basis of their Christian identity and state to crusade against Muslims and other communities.
This in turn made the highlands underdeveloped economically and it also destabilized the general regions nearby who had to be on alert of incursions & war.
Administrative and military impediments of medieval Ethiopian economy
This description i saw an account post this on twitter, was echoed by an Egyptian visitor to the highlands. Which i found to be accurate and i was suprised in how it was descibed in such plain language.
Which tiktok was that?
According to archeologists they did build many fortresses and fortified settlements in the the far western regions the closer they came to the Ethiopian highlands.
Muslim Historical Spaces in Ethiopia and the Horn of Africa: A Reassessment
They could only build fortifications once they reclaimed the far Muslim regions, so it was a bit of a back and forth.
In Futuh you see them mention building forts, capturing forts, citadels and fortified places and towns etc.
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Nomads much like sedentary urban, agricultural Somalis were important in the regional system and the sultanate.
They acted as transporters, producers, intermediaries/brokers, distributors, security, resource exploitation and connectors.
Nomads groups also served as carriers of information. Through their interactions with various communities, they disseminated news, knowledge, and market trends.
Historically there would be no significant urban society, much less trade in the region without them.
Which twitter account was that? I often get a lot of my Somali history from twitter admittedly
I think you're getting ahead of yourself, the person who was on the podcast was Flint Gibble a highly well-known archaeologist, who came on to debate with Graham Hancock, you can't dismiss information just cause it's on a platform you disagree with, you're doing yourself a disservice by leaning on your own bias about JRE.Flipping conspiracy nut Joe Rogan is not a good source for anything.
If you reverse image search that image you will find a description of this:
It's just a survey of funeral mounds. People burying their dead, that's why its all over the place.
Gareen was the name of the imperial family much like Walashma & Sa'ad Din .
Ajuuran was not what they called the state, it was a local nickname for taxing administrators that levy taxation from the populous and coordinating labour. It comes from the Arabic word Ashuur (Taxation) = Ashuuran basically.
It's similar to what is described in Futuh in these passages:
Then the emirs and the sultan replied, motivated by fear of the imam Ahmad,
may the Most High God have mcrcy upon him, ‘We agree with what you have said
to us about this matter, and we will not oppose you.' Thereupon the imam Ahmad
sent one of his administrative officers to the [better off] people of the country, to
the cattle owners and to the farmers, to collect the alms tax from them.
Other times it's not just administrative officers that are sent out to collect tax. You read Imam Ahmed coordinating agricultural production directly:
The storyteller; may God have mcrcy upon him, says: So the Qur’anic teacher Abu Bakr reached the imam Ahmad who was in Zarba, sitting and giving commands to agricultural workers, ‘Do this and do that'. He knew nothing [of this matter] and had heard no news. Then the Qur'anic teacher Abu Bakr handed over their letter, and he read it and understood its contents. The imam then said to the Qur'anic teacher Abu Bakr. ‘Return to them and tell them that what they want is vile, but let them do what they desire. I shall leave the country to them/
Locals didn't call their state Awdal or Mogadishu either, those were name of cheif commercial cities that outsiders knew them through. Their administrative capitals where centered somewhere else.
I always used Wikipedia to find sources and fact check them, primarily used open library or borrowed from archive.org.
They may not have any important cities but the highlands had a large rural peasantry . You can see this in the army numbers.
Even Somalis which i think our population was bigger and more spread out most them were concentrated on agricultural production, herding, fishing and trade etc and did not partake in war. You can clearly see this in the wars between the Muslims & Christians, ,the Muslims was mostly always outnumbered and the barriers Muslims had with recruitment.
Christian Highlanders would forcefully mobilize a large number of peasantry away from agricultural production in to war & army participation and their kings capital was a fluid mobile base or nomadic camps that they would move around with, to attack Muslims/Somalis who's capitals and centers were in fixed urban locations and agricultural hubs.
My guess is that they were fighting the expansion of Islam, and fighting us over access to the sea and trade routes that was in mostly Somali control and Somalis were just resisting them and trying to maintain sovereignty over their lands.
Their Solomonic founder , said outright he hates Muslims and made it their sole basis of their Christian identity and state to crusade against Muslims and other communities.
This in turn made the highlands underdeveloped economically and it also destabilized the general regions nearby who had to be on alert of incursions & war.
Administrative and military impediments of medieval Ethiopian economy
This description i saw an account post this on twitter, was echoed by an Egyptian visitor to the highlands. Which i found to be accurate and i was suprised in how it was descibed in such plain language.
Somethings never change
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The source seems to be talking about the Awdal/Jigjiga/Eastern Hararghe region, which is just one of the Muslim regions/kingdoms. I believe the entire highlands east of the rift valley, were muslim and divided into numerous kingdoms.
I seriously doubt that fortifications were that numerous or important, because the Christians dominated over all the Muslim highlands except Eastern Hararghe/Jigjiga/Awdal. Thats why Somalis played such an important role in Futah al Habash, because we were the strongest Muslim forces and concentrated into this area. The Oromos were also able to conquer and de-Islamize all the Muslim region turning the population into Waaqist, unlike the Christian regions who stayed independent and eventually conquering/assimiliating Central Oromos into Orthodox Christian/Amhara speakers.
There should have a centralized strong state that held control over the highlands east of the rift valley to the coast and built dozens upon dozens of forts in this specific area, only through here did abyssinians actually invade and it can be defended. As u can see the rift valley and east awash river (nomadic ciise somali region) protects the hararghe mountain range and somali coast.
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I think must have been tiktok, i get random stuff on my feed, not really sure. As soon i saw it peaked my interest, most stuff i just ignore. I even see weird history debates about ancient egyptians, its either aliens or race like it's devoid of any substance.
I don't get a lot of Somali history stuff on twitter or use it much it's mostly jobless people fighting on that app. Hardly worth my attention . I only have an account recently to access links people send me or post because it prevents you if you don't have an account and a lot of early news reports get posted there.
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I don't know him but Flint Gibble is misrepresenting things, those are just funeral mounds that are dotted around. He is making them seem more grand or significant than they are. The ones that mapped those sites are spanish group of archeologists and they specify what they are.
Graham Hancock i am aware of is a wacko, Joe Rogan platforms to these people spouting the most pseudo-archeological and pseudo historical gunk nonsense . He is up there with Billy Carson with his alien delusions.
He never brings on legitimate archeologists and historians to discuss actual world history like this guy for example:
It's not just Waqooyi- Galbeed they are talking about. They are also referring to south showa and awfat which is close enough that it pretty much borders the highlands in the far west around the awas river.
When you look at the earliest wars there is a reason why Christians/Abyssinians almost never reached Awdal/Waaqoyi the political/economic heartland of the empire which remained independent at all times and they was fighting people in the far western areas near them.
So when it comes to other Muslims areas like Fatagar, Hadiya, Dawaro, Bali which there hasn't been much archeological explorations on as far as i am aware, they were constantly falling into Christian hands and it was a bit of back and forth to retrieve and liberate them.
Also Oromo's didn't de'islamize all the Muslim regions they remained Muslim for the most part but they assimilated edged themselves into their political and clan structure most of the Oromo's converted to Islam, there was splinter oromo groups here and there in the highlands and lowlands that maintained waaqist beliefs those ones were converted in the 1800s.
The Christian highlanders didn't stay indepenedent at all they was conquered by Oromos and between the mid-18th and mid-19th centuries they was ruled by a class of Oromo elite noblemen who replaced Habesha nobility in their courts, making the emperor merely a Figuredheads called Yejju Dynasty and they replaced the courts language from Amhara into Oromo in that period as well. This was liked this until Meneliks conquest.
You can even see it in how Oromos basically replaced their paternal line of their Kings and the Solomon claim passed through their Amhara maternal side
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I believe these were the true borders:It's not just Waqooyi- Galbeed they are talking about. They are also referring to south showa and awfat which is close enough that it pretty much borders the highlands in the far west around the awas river.
When you look at the earliest wars there is a reason why Christians/Abyssinians almost never reached Awdal/Waaqoyi the political/economic heartland of the empire which remained independent at all times and they was fighting people in the far western areas near them.
So when it comes to other Muslims areas like Fatagar, Hadiya, Dawaro, Bali which there hasn't been much archeological explorations on as far as i am aware, they were constantly falling into Christian hands and it was a bit of back and forth to retrieve and liberate them.
Also Oromo's didn't de'islamize all the Muslim regions they remained Muslim for the most part but they assimilated edged themselves into their political and clan structure most of the Oromo's converted to Islam, there was splinter oromo groups here and there in the highlands and lowlands that maintained waaqist beliefs those ones were converted in the 1800s.
The Christian highlanders didn't stay indepenedent at all they was conquered by Oromos and between the mid-18th and mid-19th centuries they was ruled by a class of Oromo elite noblemen who replaced Habesha nobility in their courts, making the emperor merely a Figuredheads called Yejju Dynasty and they replaced the courts language from Amhara into Oromo in that period as well. This was liked this until Meneliks conquest.
You can even see it in how Oromos basically replaced their paternal line of their Kings and the Solomon claim passed through their Amhara maternal side
It might seem a bit confusing but red represents Adal/Muslim whilst purple represents Abyssinia/Christian.
Yellow represents the Adal/Muslim region that resisted Oromos and stayed independent until Menelik conquest in the late 19th century. Today are part of the Central Ethiopia Regional State, and it’s majority Muslim. Hararghe and Bale/Arsi highlands on the other hand, were lost and conquered by Oromos, who de-islamized the region.
White represents the Abyssinian territory that was lost to Oromos, the western half of the Shoa mountains. However, the people living here are Tulama Oromos. As you’ve said, they did conquer Habeshas. But they conquered them as bilingual Amharic-speaking Orthodox Christians who were already integrated into the Abyssinian state. These Tulama Oromos, were hated by other Oromos for assimilating into Habesha culture. It would be like bilingual Somali-speaking Afar Muslims leading the Adal Sultanate.
From the 16th century Oromo conquest of Hararghe and Bale/Arsi highlands, the region was De-Islamized and became Waaqist.
Islamization gained momentum in the mid 19th century, so we’re talking about 300~ years in which these region were no longer Muslim:
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True borders? Look at the archeological sites and where they are located in map i showed, that's what constitutes Awdal , among other regions as well. And fits the descriptions the portuguese gave it
It extended from the Djibouti-Zeila corridor to and over Cape Guardafui (Bari-Nugaal) Vassal and in the interior past Harar until it reached the Hawash/Showa river/plateu.
Portuguese description on Awdal's territory in year 1520:
We are talking about forts and defenses being built, as i have shown you can see the archeological sites in the map and that general region according to Archeologists had forts and fortresses. Only Waaqoyi lacked fortresses in many of the settlements because how more distant they were from the highlands.
We can't speak on whether Bale or Dawaro lacked forts or fortresses as there hasn't been much archeology in those areas that i am aware of. Also there are questions about Bale and Dawaros exact location as they might have been located more Northerly than south according to researchers who looked at sources.
About the location of Bali? There are studies that takes a look at it and they take a look closer look at medieval sources and the information they give us to determine it's location among others.
Final conclusion and map of it's location:
The first few texts talks about how the natives Bale were driven out by the invasion. Bale was one of the first places Oromo's attacked and invaded and pretty much wiped out. Only a minority of Muslims remained in Bale and some were the early Somali clans that connected the arrival of other newer Ogaden Somalis in the 18th century who assimilated them into a Muslim billingual Somalinized group that traces their ancestry to Somali
And prior to that Oromos came to do the exact same as they did in the Christian highlands as they did with Harrar and around it, they didn't de-islamize it, the deeper contact they made pushing/assimilating other groups like Gurage with them into Harar they adopted the Muslim religion and language of the Muslims living there and embedding themselves in the Muslim political structure in the region.
Like your source says ''More decisive , however were the contacts with the Harrari community of the Town of Harrar, where interrmarriages and political marriages contributed to the conversion of Oromo rural Elite in Harrarghe''
An example of this:
Same happened in the areas North and East of Harar as well.
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So you believe that Geri Kombe and Karanle Babile are Oromo clans that were Somalized?True borders? Look at the archeological sites and where they are located in map i showed, that's what constitutes Awdal , among other regions as well. And fits the descriptions the portuguese gave it
We are talking about forts and defenses being built, as i have shown you can see the archeological sites in the map and that general region according to Archeologists had forts and fortresses. Only Waaqoyi lacked fortresses in many of the settlements because how more distant they were from the highlands.
We can't speak on whether Bale or Dawaro lacked forts or fortresses as there hasn't been much archeology in those areas that i am aware of. Also there are questions about Bale and Dawaros exact location as they might have been located more Northerly than south according to researchers who looked at sources.
The first few texts talks about how the natives Bale were driven out by the invasion. Bale was one of the first places Oromo's attacked and invaded and pretty much wiped out. Only a minority of Muslims remained in Bale and some were the early Somali clans that connected the arrival of other newer Ogaden Somalis in the 18th century who assimilated them into a Muslim billingual Somalinized group that traces their ancestry to Somali
And prior to that Oromos came to do the exact same as they did in the Christian highlands as they did with Harrar and around it, they didn't de-islamize it, the deeper contact they made pushing/assimilating other groups like Gurage with them into Harar they adopted the Muslim religion and language of the Muslims living there and embedding themselves in the Muslim political structure in the region.
Like your source says ''More decisive , however were the contacts with the Harrari community of the Town of Harrar, where interrmarriages and political marriages contributed to the conversion of Oromo rural Elite in Harrarghe''
An example of this:
Same happened in the areas North and East of Harar as well.
Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?
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