The ideas of "Somali people", "Somali ethnic group", and "Somaliweyn"...

[Atiya]

But you throwin yourself at sand for dat light skin and seconds tho so whatchu really sayin

Inb4 I'm already liteskindded



On a serious note, answer my question. Where did it all go wrong for Pops? Got any tips for a young useless Somali as you put it?

Sick my left toe you dameer. If I want light skin kids I can just marry my cousins why would I need an Arab?

 

[Jubba_Man]

N
More bad Examples i see. Nigeria is a nationality constitutes of Several groups who dont share name,language culture tradtions religion values.

Actually, many of the groups do share the culture, traditions, and religious values. There are only minor dialect differences in the language, and these differences are much smaller than the major dialect differences between the North of Somalia and the South of Somalia. A prime example would be the Hausa and the Yoruba. They are still classified as two distinct ethnic groups.

Darood,Hawiye,Isaaq,Dir and Raxanweyn have the same culture,religion,language values and tradition, hence ethnic Somalis.

Rahanweyn and D&M speak another language, I believe. And there is certainly major dialect differences in the "Somali" that different tribes in different regions speak. In fact, the differences are so big that at times they should be classified as different languages. There are many languages that are really the same language but with minor dialect differences.

Also, you fell into a massive trap: If a bantu or a Barawani practices the same culture, religion, and speaks the language, then that means they are now ethnic Somalis, right? Because, as you yourself clearly agree, there is no heritage or descent component to forming an ethnic group. By that definition, a bantu or a barawani who satisfies all of the above is as much an "ethnic Somali" as a Darod, Hawiye, Isaac, Dir, D&M, or Rahanweyn.

 

[SuldaanSeven]

Sick my left toe you dameer. If I want light skin kids I can just marry my cousins why would I need an Arab?

this person is definitely a 0.5 listen to the way this person makes being a somali seem like a negative thing, as if a somali person who grew up in the UK,USA or Canada actually values marriage with white people or arabs more than marriege to a somali person. i am isaaq and i know for sure most isaaq want to only marry a somali, i know for sure daroods want to marry a somali and i am certain that hawiye want to marry a somali. only a 0.5 will value marriage with non somalis over marriage with somalis. i do however seperate dating and sex from this equation as this is not the same as having a white girl friend as this is normal but valuing a marriege with a white person over a marriege with a somali person is something only a 0.5 would do as this mentality can originate from a lack of self worth with in the somali community which rejected them.

 

[Atiya]

this person is definitely a 0.5 listen to the way this person makes being a somali seem like a negative thing, as if a somali person who grew up in the UK,USA or Canada actually values marriage with white people or arabs more than marriege to a somali person. i am isaaq and i know for sure most isaaq want to only marry a somali, i know for sure daroods want to marry a somali and i am certain that hawiye want to marry a somali. only a 0.5 will value marriage with non somalis over marriage with somalis. i do however seperate dating and sex from this equation as this is not the same as having a white girl friend as this is normal but valuing a marriege with a white person over a marriege with a somali person is something only a 0.5 would do as this mentality can originate from a lack of self worth with in the somali community which rejected them.

The fxck? Am I meant to get offended? I was just pointing out the sad reality of Somalis in the west so chill, it's not that deep.

 

[Geeljire]

Actually, many of the groups do share the culture, traditions, and religious values. There are only minor dialect differences in the language,

Many groups dont like your example Youruba and Hausa dont share culture , let alone language from the same language group. There is no such thing as collective nigerian culture.

and these differences are much smaller than the major dialect differences between the North of Somalia and the South of Somalia. A prime example would be the Hausa and the Yoruba. They are still classified as two distinct ethnic groups.

Varations of the same culture proves nothing . They are the same culture nonetheless. Hausa and Yoruba have seperate cultures language even if the origins are the same. By using that example you here by proved that Culture is the determining factor for Ethnic grouping.

Rahanweyn and D&M speak another language, I believe. And there is certainly major dialect differences in the "Somali" that different tribes in different regions speak. In fact, the differences are so big that at times they should be classified as different languages. There are many languages that are really the same language but with minor dialect differences.

Raxanweyne speak another dialect of the Same language. Just like Ethnic Han chinese Speak Cantonese and Mandarine. We might call it a subtle simple differences in style, approach or execution which can't even be classed as sub - culture but never an actual cultural anomalies

Raxanweyn are still ethnic somalis.

Also, you fell into a massive trap: If a bantu or a Barawani practices the same culture, religion, and speaks the language, then that means they are now ethnic Somalis, right? Because, as you yourself clearly agree, there is no heritage or descent component to forming an ethnic group. By that definition, a bantu or a barawani who satisfies all of the above is as much an "ethnic Somali" as a Darod, Hawiye, Isaac, Dir, D&M, or Rahanweyn.

Given that they dont and that is not their authentic heritage and cultural background nor have any historical connection to it. so NO! they will just be somalinized but not Somali ethnically

Cultural background is the context of one's life experience as shaped by membership in groups based on ethnicity, socioeconomic status, , exceptionalities, language, religion, sexual orientation, and geographical area.

Hence why 0.5 is another pure distinguisher of this fact. Ethnic Somalis are Dir,Raxanweyn,Darood,Isaaq, Hawiye

Dance with me saaxiib we can qoute eachother all day. lollol

 

[SuldaanSeven]

The fxck? Am I meant to get offended? I was just pointing out the sad reality of Somalis in the west so chill, it's not that deep.

why would being a 0.5 be something to be offended about? you're forgetting that the old generation of isaaqs,daroods, and hawiye have all shunned qabil mentality since they witnessed these three qabils destroy somalia over a fight for power, the new generation also shuns qabil mentality since we are east africans schooled by white teachers and employed by white men/women.

you obviously are a 0.5 since you view being called one an insult.

 

[Bahal]

Sick my left toe you dameer. If I want light skin kids I can just marry my cousins why would I need an Arab?

naa im just fucking with you caadi iska dhig

 

[Hafez]

Actually, many of the groups do share the culture, traditions, and religious values. There are only minor dialect differences in the language, and these differences are much smaller than the major dialect differences between the North of Somalia and the South of Somalia. A prime example would be the Hausa and the Yoruba. They are still classified as two distinct ethnic group as different languages. There are many langu

 

[Hafez]

The only Arabs in Somalia are us man haha J1 bro. Are we considered 0.5 as well? Hahahahahahhaha wow.

 

[Jubba_Man]

Given that they dont and that is not their authentic heritage and cultural background nor have any historical connection to it. so NO! they will just be somalinized but not Somali ethnically

What does the bolded part mean, exactly? Both the bantus (Beesha Madowweyn) and the Barawanis have been in the Somali peninsula for many centuries now and living with the other so-called "ethnic Somalis". All they know at this point is the Somali way of life, the language, and practice the same religion. Thus, it has become their authentic heritage and cultural background. To say they have no historical connection to the Somali way of life is downright patently ridiculous.

Cultural background is the context of one's life experience as shaped by membership in groups based on ethnicity, socioeconomic status, , exceptionalities, language, religion, sexual orientation, and geographical area.

Are you really basing membership in an ethnicity based on "socioeconomic status" and "exceptionalities"? When there are large variations in wealth, land, resources, and political power among the different tribes that form the so-called "Somali ethnic group"? Also, what academic source can you cite that gives credence to using these characteristics in defining an ethnic group?

Hence why 0.5 is another pure distinguisher of this fact. Ethnic Somalis are Dir,Raxanweyn,Darood,Isaaq, Hawiye

No "hence" here is warranted because you've essentially constructed a non-sequitur. The only reason 0.5 are distinguished as 0.5 is purely based on their numbers and the lack of political power they wield. By all other metrics of ethnicity you've defined (culture, language, religion, and history), they fit them all easily and should be classed as "ethnic Somalis". You have made no meaningful definition of ethnicity that can include the 4 major tribes, but exclude the minorities simultaneously.

Lastly, how does this fit in with your traditionalist view? Isn't this definition of ethnicity you are using invented by foreigners who have nothing to do with the people living in the Somali peninsula? In essence, are you not imposing a foreign concept (that of the Somali ethnic group) on a people who have never acknowledged such a thing in their history?

Dance with me saaxiib we can qoute eachother all day. lollol

Nothing wrong with rational and lively debate, sxb. As long as we keep open minds and keep the personal attacks to a minimum, we can learn a lot from this interaction.

 

[Hafez]

Excellent Darod, tell them again. They say we are not Somalis hahahahaha. There's around 40-55k of us in Somalia and 100K world wide.

 

[Hafez]

We probably founded Mogudishu (only a specific region on the port) and we get told we are not Somali hahahahahah

Meaning of Mogudishu = Maq'ad (meaning seat in Arabic) and Shah (Persian word for king)

I got both Arabic and Persian DNA so the above is not a myth, say no more.

 

[SuldaanSeven]

What does the bolded part mean, exactly? Both the bantus (Beesha Madowweyn) and the Barawanis have been in the Somali peninsula for many centuries now and living with the other so-called "ethnic Somalis". All they know at this point is the Somali way of life, the language, and practice the same religion. Thus, it has become their authentic heritage and cultural background. To say they have no historical connection to the Somali way of life is downright patently ridiculous.


Are you really basing membership in an ethnicity based on "socioeconomic status" and "exceptionalities"? When there are large variations in wealth, land, resources, and political power among the different tribes that form the so-called "Somali ethnic group"? Also, what academic source can you cite that gives credence to using these characteristics in defining an ethnic group?


No "hence" here is warranted because you've essentially constructed a non-sequitur. The only reason 0.5 are distinguished as 0.5 is purely based on their numbers and the lack of political power they wield. By all other metrics of ethnicity you've defined (culture, language, religion, and history), they fit them all easily and should be classed as "ethnic Somalis". You have made no meaningful definition of ethnicity that can include the 4 major tribes, but exclude the minorities simultaneously.

Lastly, how does this fit in with your traditionalist view? Isn't this definition of ethnicity you are using invented by foreigners who have nothing to do with the people living in the Somali peninsula? In essence, are you not imposing a foreign concept (that of the Somali ethnic group) on a people who have never acknowledged such a thing in their history?


Nothing wrong with rational and lively debate, sxb. As long as we keep open minds and keep the personal attacks to a minimum, we can learn a lot from this interaction.

technically speaking the only somalis are hawiye and dir since they only descend from Irir Samaale. of course the only time you would reach this conclution is if you are trying to identify who is a somali and who is not a somali judging by the strictest measuring stick there is. and that measuring stick is none other than Irir samaale who his children are named after as somali. this then raises a problem when we look at the case of isaaq and jeberti since they both claim paternal ancestry from the middle east, isaaqs going so far as to claim to be bani hashim quraish.

 

[Geeljire]

What does the bolded part mean, exactly? Both the bantus (Beesha Madowweyn) and the Barawanis have been in the Somali peninsula for many centuries now and living with the other so-called "ethnic Somalis". All they know at this point is the Somali way of life, the language, and practice the same religion. Thus, it has become their authentic heritage and cultural background. To say they have no historical connection to the Somali way of life is downright patently ridiculous.

The bolded part means its not an heritage in which they were part of devolopming nor connected to orignally historically. They have claim to Bantu and Swahili culture but not somali

Are you really basing membership in an ethnicity based on "socioeconomic status" and "exceptionalities"? When there are large variations in wealth, land, resources, and political power among the different tribes that form the so-called "Somali ethnic group"? Also, what academic source can you cite that gives credence to using these characteristics in defining an ethnic group?

No "hence" here is warranted because you've essentially constructed a non-sequitur. The only reason 0.5 are distinguished as 0.5 is purely based on their numbers and the lack of political power they wield. By all other metrics of ethnicity you've defined (culture, language, religion, and history), they fit them all easily and should be classed as "ethnic Somalis". You have made no meaningful definition of ethnicity that can include the 4 major tribes, but exclude the minorities simultaneously

Their socioeconomic status signified by the fact they are worth half of a ethnic somali (Raxanweyn,Dir,Darood,Hawiye).

Lastly, how does this fit in with your traditionalist view? Isn't this definition of ethnicity you are using invented by foreigners who have nothing to do with the people living in the Somali peninsula? In essence, are you not imposing a foreign concept (that of the Somali ethnic group) on a people who have never acknowledged such a thing in their history?


Nothing wrong with rational and lively debate, sxb. As long as we keep open minds and keep the personal attacks to a minimum, we can learn a lot from this interaction.

It is not that ethnicity did not exist in African societies prior to colonialism, it did. I want to distinguish between ethnicity as cultural identity— an identity based on shared culture—and ethnicity as political identity. Ethnicity as cultural identity is consensual,

Weak arguments saaxiib, you are starting to bore me. Yaaawwwnn

 

[Jubba_Man]

The bolded part means its not an heritage in which they were part of devolopming nor connected to orignally historically. They have claim to Bantu and Swahili culture but not somali

By that logic, Darods and Isaacs are not ethnic Somalis since we merely adopted Somali culture and the language according to our sacred oral traditions and were Somalized over time.

Secondly, you need to distinguish between the Bantus. The recently arrived bantus (Mushunguli) who have been her less than a century are the ones who claim to be Bantu and practice Swahili culture. The Beesha Madowweyn, on the other hand, have been here for more than 4 centuries and have only known the Somali culture for all of this time as well as speaking the Somali language. The same is largely true for the Barawani people. You can only argue pointless semantics in trying to exclude these people from the "Somali ethnic group" even though they fit your definition as much as a Hawiye, Isaac, and Darod do.

Their socioeconomic status signified by the fact they are worth half of a ethnic somali (Raxanweyn,Dir,Darood,Hawiye).

Very silly logic. Political oppression by the ruling class does not define something as immutable as ethnicity. The perfect example of the failure your non-argument is the status of the Madhibaan tribe. They are classified as 0.5 according to this political system, so by your definition that would exclude them from the "Somali ethnic group", correct?

It is not that ethnicity did not exist in African societies prior to colonialism, it did. I want to distinguish between ethnicity as cultural identity— an identity based on shared culture—and ethnicity as political identity. Ethnicity as cultural identity is consensual,

So, why don't you provide evidence in Somali history of the people living in Somalia recognizing the existence of a "Somali people" and making that critical distinction? Until you can provide that evidence, the claim still stands that the concept of the "Somali people" was conceived outside of the Somali peninsula and was brought into the region by foreigners.

Weak arguments saaxiib, you are starting to bore me. Yaaawwwnn

I understand it's not a very pleasant experience being on the losing side of an argument, but please bear with me sxb.

 

[Geeljire]

By that logic, Darods and Isaacs are not ethnic Somalis since we merely adopted Somali culture and the language according to our sacred oral traditions and were Somalized over time.

Cant prove! by your logicThen darood hawiye were also somalinized? then were did somali begin? Exactly!! Weak argument!

They all established and were part of creating somali culture hene why they have same culture traditions lanuage.

Secondly, you need to distinguish between the Bantus. The recently arrived bantus (Mushunguli) who have been her less than a century are the ones who claim to be Bantu and practice Swahili culture. The Beesha Madowweyn, on the other hand, have been here for more than 4 centuries and have only known the Somali culture for all of this time as well as speaking the Somali language. The same is largely true for the Barawani people. You can only argue pointless semantics in trying to exclude these people from the "Somali ethnic group" even though they fit your definition as much as a Hawiye, Isaac, and Darod do.

There is no distinguishment Bantus didnt live in somalia prior to 18th century. nor do they have were they part of any somali culural devolopement nor connected to it orignally historically. They were segregated shunned.

Very silly logic. Political oppression by the ruling class does not define something as immutable as ethnicity. The perfect example of the failure your non-argument is the status of the Madhibaan tribe. They are classified as 0.5 according to this political system, so by your definition that would exclude them from the "Somali ethnic group", correct?

Not really 0.5. is a releftion of non ethnic somali minorities socio ecnomic status.

Mr. Mude has also complained of an alleged robbery against Bantu farmers in the region which produces large parts of Somalia’s agricultural production.

“We want to meet Somali president who is among dozens of world leaders attending the UN summit to submit our grievances.” He said

Madhiban isnt 0.5, where did you here that room?

So, why don't you provide evidence in Somali history of the people living in Somalia recognizing the existence of a "Somali people" and making that critical distinction? Until you can provide that evidence, the claim still stands that the concept of the "Somali people" was conceived outside of the Somali peninsula and was brought into the region by foreigners

Thats like asking to show evidence that people in norway or england or china recognized the existence of their ethnic group. Im pretty sure them wearing and carrying their Ethnic label is proof of that. We werent named soomaals by foreigners saaxiib.

like i said,
It is not that ethnicity did not exist in African societies prior to colonialism, it did. I want to distinguish between ethnicity as cultural identity— an identity based on shared culture—and ethnicity as political identity. Ethnicity as cultural identity is consensual,

I understand it's not a very pleasant experience being on the losing side of an argument, but please bear with me sxb

lool loosing argument says the guy who edited out the definition of ethnic group just to accomodate him. Saaxiib i am here for you i will qoute back and forth with you all day

 

[TheSayid]

The same is largely true for the Barawani people. .

thats not true, barwani have their own culture, and language. so by your definition of what it takes to be somali, how are these people somali,when the only similarity they have with somalis is religion. might as well call the half breed swahilis in lamu somali as well

 

[Hafez]

Darod stop being silly nothing about isaaq and darod tribes indicate they are Arabs. You are a flipping Somali stop being delusional. DNA proved this lmao. About your somalinised LOOOOL. African boy claiming us. Our elders know ALL the Arabs.

 

[Hafez]

All you flipping Somalis are Somali ok?

 

[Hafez]

Hahahahahahahahahahah he said darod and isaaq are somalianized LOOOL your bani hashim yh? Shut the heck up you guys are the original Somalis LOL!