I'm laughing at your Twitter snippets because literally the most accessible source out there is Congress Library click of a button away dismantle all your monologues. This is A B C of Somali history that you're trying to revision and surprisingly everyone is getting along with it.
Which decade has been the worst decade ever for Somalis/Somalia
- Thread starter Sigmundd
- Start date
There is zero proof that he said this btw. Fake quote attributed to him.
He didn't come to power with a gun, an obvious lie. It was a bloodless coup and he was nominated into power by a military council.
The opposition is meant to provide a transitional plan not Siad Barre. When the Kacaan government formed , it was through a 2 year process of secret planning within the military and they didn't lead with violence , they ensured the peace, security and smooth transition when they attempt the coup attempt and it was welcomed. It all formed through organic impulses to redress the many ailments of Somali society at the time. They had everything mapped out, from their uniting vision, their economic plan, their administrative organization , foreign policy agenda etc and printed.
The 1960 government didn't provide this for them. There is no government in any time in the world that provides that governing plan for an incoming transition or a regime, they have to come to the table with it themselves.
Whereas the rebel groups didn't create or provide a single plan, nor did they deliberate anything related to governing. They couldn't even express a governing philosophy or ideology that differed from Siad Barre. They are failures and its on them. Manifesto kulaha that included zero plan or vision btw . You know school shooters and terrorists create manifesto's as well? Yeah lets mention a Manifesto group led by criminals and traitors.
No heads of state anywhere in the world steps down, when there is threats to his countries security. Right after the Ogaden war Ethiopia launched a combined invasion with the SDF which the Somali government defeated and other Ethiopian proxy groups like the SNM ,USC spawned launching attacks from Ethiopia.
That action actually cemented him more in power than not. During wartime leadership don't step down. During crises like war or security threats, having stable leadership is crucial for maintaining order, making swift decisions, and coordinating the country's response. Stepping down in such times could lead to political instability, confusion, or a power vacuum that might weaken the nation’s defense and response efforts.
And he did open up for negotiations and attempted to create avenues for reconciliation, they either refused or brought nothing to the table.
Even Isaaq elders accused them SNM of not bring any alternatives to the Siad Barre regime
And also when it comes to the qabyalaad and MOD gibber gabber,. i have gone through it in a different thread. There is zero documentary proof to this, it's a bunch of clan-talk assertions projected
Zero proof to what you said. Most members of the revolutionary council ''golaha sare'' were not merahan at all. All but Siad were a mixed group of officers hailing from several different clan lineages and they nominated him into the leadership that's how he came to power.
They had been planning the coup for 2 years before assassination happened and only acted at that moment to save Somalia which was reported to be on the brink of collapse. The assassination of Sharkmarke was not because of inter clan division no evidence of that either. You identify the perpetrators clan identity as Majerteeen to build this false assertion around it. Someone who happens to be of majerteen ancestry assassinating another Majerteen is automatically inter clan division . Everything is clan motivated. I'm convinced qabil centerist thinking is dementedness akin to the mindset of how a racist thinks.
Also the Mod is fiction, he had no alliance between Merahan Ogaden or Darood.
How do we know this? Because he withheld traditional subsidies and arms from Ogadenians and they consequently were angered spreading anti-government pamphlets he arrested a number of them and dismissed a number officers from his government. If he had an alliance with them, how would that had happened?
This is after the drought , where most of the governments attention was towards aiding Somalis domestically.
There are also cases where he dismisses several members and officers from Merahan and jailed them. Even his own family he jailed and dismissed. There was never an alliance.
SPM was not allied to Siad Barre at all or even connected to him, . They also was another minor rebel group opposing him, he didn't create them.
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There were already talks of Siad Barre stepping down from power anyways. The conflict with the rebels indeed had the opposite effect and embolded him to stay in office because what head of state would willingly step down during a security crisis? Would the rebels really stop fighting just because someone else replaces Barre? Of course not since the rebels were backed by Ethiopia in the first place and didn't organically arise from legitimate grievances from Barre's rule.The opposition is meant to provide a transitional plan not Siad Barre. When the Kacaan government formed , it was through a 2 year process of secret planning within the military and they didn't lead with violence , they ensured the peace, security and smooth transition when they attempt the coup attempt and it was welcomed. It all formed through organic impulses to redress the many ailments of Somali society at the time. They had everything mapped out, from their uniting vision, their economic plan, their administrative organization , foreign policy agenda etc and printed.
The 1960 government didn't provide this for them. There is no government in any time in the world that provides that governing plan for an incoming transition or a regime, they have to come to the table with it themselves.
Whereas the rebel groups didn't create or provide a single plan, nor did they deliberate anything related to governing. They couldn't even express a governing philosophy or ideology that differed from Siad Barre. They are failures and its on them. Manifesto kulaha that included zero plan or vision btw . You know school shooters and terrorists create manifesto's as well? Yeah lets mention a Manifesto group led by criminals and traitors.
No heads of state anywhere in the world steps down, when there is threats to his countries security. Right after the Ogaden war Ethiopia launched a combined invasion with the SDF which the Somali government defeated and other Ethiopian proxy groups like the SNM ,USC spawned launching attacks from Ethiopia.
That action actually cemented him more in power than not. During wartime leadership don't step down. During crises like war or security threats, having stable leadership is crucial for maintaining order, making swift decisions, and coordinating the country's response. Stepping down in such times could lead to political instability, confusion, or a power vacuum that might weaken the nation’s defense and response efforts.
And he did open up for negotiations and attempted to create avenues for reconciliation, they either refused or brought nothing to the table.
Even Isaaq elders accused them SNM of not bring any alternatives to the Siad Barre regime
And also when it comes to the qabyalaad and MOD gibber gabber,. i have gone through it in a different thread. There is zero documentary proof to this, it's a bunch of clan-talk assertions projected
SPM was not allied to Siad Barre at all or even connected to him, . They also was another minor rebel group opposing him, he didn't create them.
Also, all they had to do was lay their weapons down and bring an alternative and deliberate on how to best improve the political and economic situation.
Or some specific list of reforms they wanted to be made or implemented.
They should have led with a plan not with a gun.
In this video interview he is kinda right.
And it's like you said emboldened him to remain in office.
Despite their trechery, SNM and SSDF had some good people there with a plan and vision that stopped the infighting and led to the creation of Somaliland and Puntland but USC had no such people and instead pillaged and destroyed Somalia for 16 years. There is no way anyone could argue that lunatics like Aidid or Mahdi were better than Barre.
Culture and Customs of Somalia (2001) page 39
"As the guerrillas of the USC closed on him, Barre adopted the same methods of destruction. Artillery pieces from his hilltop palace-barracks shelled downtown Mogadishu. Civilians were tied together in batches and shot summarily by the members of his feared Red Berets presidential brigade, who were drawn to the man from a small Marehan subclan. To a group of Hawiye elders who asked him to step down, Barre stormed: "When I came to Mogadishu . . . [t]here was one road built by the Italians. If you try to force me to stand down, I will leave the city as I found it. I came to power with a gun; only the gun can make me go."
Obviously he used force to keep it, kill all his potential rivals and locked up all political class of the 1960s. Point here, if you approve Barre's coup in 1969 against democratic establishment you have no excuse to appose 1970, 1978 coup or the various rebel groups who's goal to overthrow him since he came with the same way.
That's B.S bring your source.
"The stage was set for a coup d'état, but the event that precipitated the coup was unplanned. On October 15, 1969, a bodyguard killed president Shermaarke while prime minister Igaal was out of the country. (The assassin, a member of a lineage said to have been badly treated by the president, was subsequently tried and executed by the revolutionary government.) Igaal returned to Mogadishu to arrange for the selection of a new president by the National Assembly. His choice was, like Shermaarke, a member of the Daarood clan-family (Igaal was an Isaaq). Government critics, particularly a group of army officers, saw no hope for improving the country's situation by this means. On October 21, 1969, when it became apparent that the assembly would support Igaal's choice, army units took over strategic points in Mogadishu and rounded up government officials and other prominent political figures. The police cooperated with the army.
Although not regarded as the author of the military takeover, army commander Major General Mahammad Siad Barre assumed leadership of the officers who deposed the civilian government. The new governing body, the Supreme Revolutionary Council (SRC), installed Siad Barre as its president. The SRC arrested and detained at the presidential palace leading members of the democratic regime, including Igaal. The SRC banned political parties, abolished the National Assembly, and suspended the constitution ..."
I haven't seen it reported anywhere so i doubt it's authentic. There is whole announcement and video he made before the exit.
Here you can hear him request from the public to lay down arms, stop looting, killing and he was willing to give up power if that brings peace back. His thoughts and anger was also with them shooting innocent people.
He only stayed in place to prevent the country from falling into chaos and become destabilized.
So there is no i came with a gun i am going to leave it how i found it. I approve kulaha , the public approved the coup and they literally saved the country at the time which was at the brink of collapse
The Historical Evolution of the Somali Revolutionary
I am not against replacing the Siad Barre Regime if it would help save the country.
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Sure if the rebels didn't decide to chimp out for 16 years. No one would care about Barre if Somalia was actually stable today.
And he did open up for negotiations and attempted to create avenues for reconciliation, they either refused or brought nothing to the table.
Even Isaaq elders accused them SNM of not bring any alternatives to the Siad Barre regime
UN report disagrees. A delegation of Isaaq elders visited Afweyne. They told him point blank his soldiers and Ogaden refugees Human Rights abuses were the main driver behind SNM growth. Afweyne laughed in their face and kicked them out. So he knew all along his close allies were purposely killing, raping and looting Isaaq civilians.
UN report: Somalia a government at war with it's own people (1990) page 127
Don't quote me kid, or better yet run to the admin again and sit there.
No argument as usual I see. Was hoping that your hiatus would make you more level headed but I guess you can't be too hopeful.
''The stage was set for a coup d'état, but the event that precipitated the coup was unplanned.''October 15, 1969, a bodyguard killed president Shermaarke while prime minister Igaal was out of the country''
The coup wasn't unplanned at all but the event i.e the assassination of president sharmarke was the unplanned part. Thats what it says'. I don't think they could have predicted or meant for that to happen
Here is one of the officers part of the SRC who was the key architects in the coup share how they planned it for 2 years in absolute top secrecy, not even the public knew about it
''We were preparing for a coup for over two years. We never told this to the general public until now'' ''It was a secret plan, and the level of secrecy was extremely high''
The Military government suceeded in ensuring that safety , security remained whilst ensuring whilst a transition of government was happening. Something very rare during the times of a coup d'etat'
And they made their plans and vision for a new Somalia known immediately and announced it during the coup. Not to mention the comprehensive 5 year plan and later the 10 year plan .
You seen what i shared earlier about USC and manifesto group, they had a moderate faction within it.
I wouldn't say they had a plan or vision but every group or region had peace brokers, that could settle things and stabilize it after some time. Usually it was the local traditional elders in connection in cooperation with the moderates.
Why that didn't happen in the Mogadishu or with the USC . Has to do with American intervention. U.S forces indiscriminately killed almost 200 Sultans and elders who gathered to broker peace in Xamar, in a suprise attack btw
From the New York Times
https://www.nytimes.com/books/99/03/14/reviews/990314.14finnegt.html
"The hunt for Aidid was a fiasco. In July helicopters under United Nations command fired high-explosive TOW missiles into a house where a meeting of Habr Gidr clan elders was being held. There were 250 casualties, including 54 dead, according to the International Committee of the Red Cross. Four Western journalists who rushed to the scene were also killed, by a furious mob. ''The journalists' deaths focused worldwide anger on the Somalis,'' Bowden writes, ''but in Mogadishu the shock and outrage was over the surprise attack.'' This was not the only massacre perpetrated from the air. Aidid, defiant and uncaptured, became a folk hero, and the United Nations, particularly its helicopters, became widely hated in Mogadishu."
The single action that did more than any other to cement Somali hostility and to unite the different clan factions in Mogadishu against the Americans was the massacre of a meeting of Habr Gedir clan elders on July 12, 1993. They had convened their meeting to discuss peace proposals Admiral Howe had put to them the previous day. Cobra gunships armed with TOW missiles and 20 mm cannons attacked the house, with ground troops finishing off the wounded."
There is more on it here:
Bloody Monday raid - Wikipedia
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I haven't seen it reported anywhere so i doubt it's authentic. There is whole announcement and video he made before the exit.
Here you can hear him request from the public to lay down arms, stop looting, killing and he was willing to give up power if that brings peace back. His thoughts and anger was also with them shooting innocent people.
He only stayed in place to prevent the country from falling into chaos and become destabilized.
So there is no i came with a gun i am going to leave it how i found it. I approve kulaha , the public approved the coup and they literally saved the country at the time which was at the brink of collapse
The Historical Evolution of the Somali Revolutionary
I am not against replacing the Siad Barre Regime if it would help save the country.
Typical low I.Q dictator, pledges for peace after spending an entire decade massacring his own people. I'm not surprised you simpletons fall for his theatrics. When he was delivering that speech you linked he already massacred hundreds in the infamous Stadium massacre antagonizing the Hawiye and bringing an end to his own regime. This is what your beloved leader was doing after this speech.
"In the late 1980s, disaffection with the regime set in among the Hawiye who felt increasingly marginalized in the Siad Barre regime. From the town of Beledweyne in the central valley of the Shabeelle River to Buulobarde, to Giohar, and in Mogadishu, the clan was subjected to ruthless assault. Government atrocities inflicted on the Hawiye were considered comparable in scale to those against the Majeerteen and Isaaq. By undertaking this assault on the Hawiye, Siad Barre committed a fatal error. By the end of 1990, he still controlled the capital and adjacent regions but by alienating the Hawiye, Siad Barre turned his last stronghold into enemy territory.
Faced with saboteurs by day and sniper fire by night, Siad Barre ordered remaining units of the badly demoralized Red Berets to massacre civilians. By 1989 torture and murder became the order of the day in Mogadishu. On July 9, 1989, Somalia's Italian-born Roman Catholic bishop, Salvatore Colombo, was gunned down in his church in Mogadishu by an unknown assassin. The order to murder the bishop, an outspoken critic of the regime, was widely believed to have had come from the presidential palace.
On the heels of the bishop's murder came the infamous July 14 massacre, when the Red Berets slaughtered 450 Muslims demonstrating against the arrest of their spiritual leaders. More than 2,000 were seriously injured. On July 15, forty-seven people, mainly from the Isaaq clan, were taken to Jasiira Beach west of the city and summarily executed. The July massacres prompted a shift in United States policy as the United States began to distance itself from Siad Barre.
With the loss of United States support, the regime grew more desperate. An anti-Siad Barre demonstration on July 6, 1990, at a soccer match in the main stadium deteriorated into a riot, causing Siad Barre's bodyguard to panic and open fire on the demonstrators. At least sixty-five people were killed. A week later, while the city reeled from the impact of what came to be called the Stadia Corna Affair, Siad Barre sentenced to death 46 prominent members of the Manifesto Group, a body of 114 notables who had signed a petition in May calling for elections and improved human rights. During the contrived trial that resulted in the death sentences, demonstrators surrounded the court and activity in the city came to a virtual halt. On July 13, a shaken Siad Barre dropped the charges against the accused. As the city celebrated victory, Siad Barre, conceding defeat for the first time in twenty years, retreated into his bunker at the military barracks near the airport to save himself from the people's wrath."
Why would I argue with the spoiled kid of SSpot, last time you got Karbashed you ran to the admin and got me banned for 2 months. Soft ass nigga.
Ran to the admin kulaha, I did no such thing. You were the one rambling about southern Somalis being r worded by Bantus and other disrespectful crap. No wonder you were given the ban hammer.
Next time, have better etiquette.
Whether it was organized or not, the new regime didn't have an open rebellion or build a new system. They just changed the name to Somalia Democratic Republic, replaced democratic vote with a socialist council but all powers remain in the hand of Afweyne and his MOD circle.
While it's true his coup was revived positively at least initially he become unpopular and lost credibility after Ogaden war (point you guys love to dodge) instead of reconciliation with the opposition and paving the road for elections he doubled down on military solution and destroyed the government he inherited in 1969.
Many different observes on the ground and witnesses at time could see that it was the traitors insurgencies fault.
They would launch invasions and attacks on the behest of Ethiopia that just saw the civilian population suffer in the process from a counter measure.
Another diplomat peace broker on the ground.
They weren't liberators fighting some oppressive regime, they brought the repression on the civilian population and loss of civilian lives.
If you want to blame anyone , its the USC , SNM, SPM, SDF, and the traitor warlords that headed them.
I have no sympathy for them just like that Italian diplomat.
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