Which decade has been the worst decade ever for Somalis/Somalia

[Galool]

@Idilinaa this same faction that did not want to unite and then went to the ethiopians for support, were they tied to the group that fought the Sayid for the British?

If true what is with this group? Clearly there are traitors to be found all over and many have been mentioned in this thread. But why are they consistently undermining Somalis with ethiopian support?

It seems like the only group that has an unbroken chain of treachery.

 

[X29]

If it was the FGS, Aden's regime and TFG it probably would be true and another example is Yemen for comparison.

But no it wouldn't have ended like that because the Government was socialist but also very robust in governance in allocating expenditure & resources and had lower levels of corruption.
So it would go into developing the country and social programs, same as what was happening already.
The first few years of the regime was one of the most successful governing periods in African history.

Why didn't the kacaan develop it oil industry during the 70s

 

[Idilinaa]

@Idilinaa this same faction that did not want to unite and then went to the ethiopians for support, were they tied to the group that fought the Sayid for the British?

If true what is with this group? Clearly there are traitors to be found all over and many have been mentioned in this thread. But why are they consistently undermining Somalis with ethiopian support?

It seems like the only group that has an unbroken chain of treachery.

I am not really sure where the treachery originates from. All i know is that Ethiopia sought to exploit the tension between the north and south and they tried many times to destroy Somalia with Ethiopian support since the founding of the new republic they also wanted to the negate the union.

They were stopped in their tracks many times. So yeah it was an unbroken chain of betraying the Somali nation non-stop since the government formed.

It's like that article i linked said, they were self-serving , greedy, had political ambitions (want to rule and get back at other Somali, not serve or build) and they were completely unrepentant like they would be caught red handed many times for wrongdoings and they never owned up to it.


They went to Ethiopia because no other Somali wanted to support them and their crimes against the country.

Then they contacted Ethiopian Embassy in London and plotted a relocation to Ethiopia, to finalize and to organized themselves.

 

[Idilinaa]

Why didn't the kacaan develop it oil industry during the 70s

Although they have been exploring for oils since the 60s

They only discovered potential oil reserves and deposits in the early 80s. And back then they made deals with international oil exploration companies and they had already begun drilling before the overthrow and collapse

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mopmr.gov.so

Most Giant IOC’s had acreages in Somalia before 1991, before the collapse of the state

Geophysical data was gathered, exploration took off and more than 60 wells were drilled in the efforts preceding 1991.

So yeah these buffoon traitors set us back immensely.

 

[X29]

Although they have been exploring for oils since the 60s

They only discovered potential oil reserves and deposits in the early 80s. And back then they made deals with international oil exploration companies and they had already begun drilling before the overthrow and collapse

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mopmr.gov.so

So yeah these buffoon traitors set us back immensely.

How do you think the diaspora would be with there be any and what would are GDP be hypothetically speaking?

 

[Idilinaa]

How do you think the diaspora would be with there be any and what would are GDP be hypothetically speaking?

If you factor in our population + Oil export revenue + economic diversification

Our population at the end of the 80s was 6 million it would amount to 500-600 billion USD in todays money in GDP. Think of Norway as close approximate.

without economic diversification i would say around 80-85 billion USD in GDP. Think of Oman and Kuwait as close approximate to this.

So it could range from 80-600 billion USD.

Didn't understand the question about the diaspora, could you repeat it. How do i think the diaspora would fare if there was oil exports?

 

[X29]

If you factor in our population + Oil export revenue + economic diversification

Our population at the end of the 80s was 6 million it would amount to 500-600 billion USD in todays money in GDP. Think of Norway as close approximate.

without economic diversification i would say around 80-85 billion USD in GDP. Think of Oman and Kuwait as close approximate to this.

So it could range from 80-600 billion USD.

Didn't understand the question about the diaspora, could you repeat it. How do i think the diaspora would fare if there was oil exports?

What I mean would there be a large diaspora or would it be very small

 

[Idilinaa]

What I mean would there be a large diaspora or would it be very small

There would be a small diaspora group , it would primarily consist of business people, mariners and students. There weren't a large pool of economic migrants before the collapse in 91.

You can look at Japan and Norway before and after the 60s. They were mass immigrating to the US and Japanese were also immigrating to parts Latin America, for economic opportunities.

But when those countries experienced economic growth and better living standards during the 60s into 90s it completely halted. Non of them are interested in leaving their country anymore and a large bulk of them returned as well.

 

[X29]

There would be a small diaspora group , it would primarily consist of business people, mariners and students. There weren't a large pool of economic migrants before the collapse in 91.

You can look at Japan and Norway before and after the 60s. They were mass immigrating to the US and Japanese were also immigrating to parts Latin America, for economic opportunities.

But when those countries experienced economic growth and better living standards during the 60s into 90s it completely halted. Non of them are interested in leaving their country anymore and a large bulk of them returned as well.

Who would be the leader of Somalia during the 90s and 2000s in this timeline

 

[Nin123]

Probably 1990s that was the year the Siad Barre regime came to an end. Blaxk hawk down, civil war. Since than we haven't had a decent decade just been constant decaying.

90s by far was the worst then second is 2000s.

 

[Idilinaa]

Who would be the leader of Somalia during the 90s and 2000s in this timeline

They would probably transition into election based democracy is my guess. Like what happened to Singapore.

If not it would probably be Ali Samatar the vice president at the time, in the mid 80s Somalia was showings signts that it was headed towards a regime change.

Plus trying to destroy the country and incite violence because you disagree with one old man, who would have left office in just a few years time has to be idiotic. These criticisms they make even if they were true does not make much sense as a justification.

In the mid 80s Somalia was on it's way towards a regime and a transition as New York Times reported it: All they should have done is wait it out for peaceful transition and build on the regime change and correct/change on things they felt needed it.

What is always apparent to me is that Somalia would have gone in the direction of the Nordic countries who were experimenting with socialism becoming a mixed social -capitalist country in the end. Would have went on the same path as Singapore from dictatorship to elective democracy and it would have just become more increasingly Islam oriented , more people were becoming practicing and wearing hijab during his administration compared to Aden's. That's the transition it would have made if people allowed it to.

Also notice it says:

''Thousands of Somalis, waving green branches to symbolize life and rebirth filled the streets of the capital to welcome their leader''

It shows how much he was embraced and loved by the local civilian populous. They try to paint things through the perceptive of disgruntled individuals and imply the government was hated.

 

[X29]

They would probably transition into election based democracy is my guess. Like what happened to Singapore.

If not it would probably be Ali Samatar the vice president at the time, in the mid 80s Somalia was showings signts that it was headed towards a regime change.

How was Ali smatar perceived

 

[FBIsomalia]

Why was Abdullahi Yusuf so spineless why couldn't he just negotiate with the icu

ICU attacked Puntland before even we went to south, so HAG start this shit and payback was break ICU down.

 

[TheLand]

Why was Abdullahi Yusuf so spineless why couldn't he just negotiate with the icu

No negotiation with terrorists. That’s the problem with you konfurians, you are spineless and want to ‘negotiate’ with people who want to blow you to hell.

 

[Idilinaa]

ICU attacked Puntland before even we went to south, so HAG start this shit and payback was break ICU down.

They ICU never attacked Puntland, Puntland iniated an attack on them Nov.6 in Galinsoor a town 60Km south of their border.

Puntland was scared when the ICU extender their control and reach into all of the southern Somalia, it would reach them.

 

[Idilinaa]

No negotiation with terrorists. That’s the problem with you konfurians, you are spineless and want to ‘negotiate’ with people who want to blow you to hell.

Imagine slandering the ICU as terrorists while defending them man who brought Ethiopian troops to fight an elected Puntland President. He was mad that he was democratically unseated and rejected it. That should tell you how much of self serving, egoist and an ethiopian proxy agent

Puntland crisis (2001–2003) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He falsely accused President Jama of being terrorist as well.

Abdullahi Yusuf rejected the election of the new president, and fighting between Jama and Yusuf's forces broke out several days later in Garowe. Ali Jama was linked to the Transitional National Government, which alarmed the government of Ethiopia - as it was determined to remove the TNG.[5] Yusuf had used the 'War on Terror' to justify the operation and claimed Jama supported the Islamist militant group Al-Itihaad Al-Islamiya.[4]

If anything Abdullahi Yusuf was a Warlord(The actual terrorist) and he brutalized Somalis killed many and conscripted children into militias. He was a garbage loser inside and out.

Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed: Warlord who as president failed to restore

He gained a reputation as a ruthless operator who jailed and sometimes killed his opponents

www.independent.co.uk

According to the BBC analyst Mohamed Mohamed, "In southern Somalia, he was viewed as someone who brought Somalia's enemy into Somali territory to fight his own brothers, instead of sorting out the political problems in a peaceful manner." The Ethiopian troops did not achieve peace, since the Islamists went on to stage an insurgency with the help of Eritrea. Some of the insurgents later, to international dismay, aligned themselves with Al-Qa'ida.

 

[Idilinaa]

How was Ali smatar perceived

It's on the top right of the news paper i shared with you, it speaks breifly of how he is perceived. He was viewed by world diplomats as an intelligent and able man, he was popular with the army and he had least amount of objections to him.

I think he would been a good pick to lead that transition because he was from a minor qabil, he was never subject of controversies and political motivated accusations of favoratism or clan backing that comes with being from a major clan.

 

[TheLand]

Imagine slandering the ICU as terrorists while defending them man who brought Ethiopian troops to fight an elected Puntland President. He was mad that he was democratically unseated and rejected it. That should tell you how much of self serving, egoist and an ethiopian proxy agent

Puntland crisis (2001–2003) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He falsely accused President Jama of being terrorist as well.



If anything Abdullahi Yusuf was a Warlord(The actual terrorist) and he brutalized Somalis killed many and conscripted children into militias. He was a garbage loser inside and out.

Abdullahi Yusuf Ahmed: Warlord who as president failed to restore

He gained a reputation as a ruthless operator who jailed and sometimes killed his opponents

www.independent.co.uk

I stopped taking you seriously after you claimed ICU held democratic elections. As some have pointed out, you use sources selectively and usually old sources when newer ones are available that don’t help your points. Have some shame

 

[FBIsomalia]

They ICU never attacked Puntland, Puntland iniated an attack on them Nov.6 in Galinsoor a town 60Km south of their border.

Puntland was scared when the ICU extender their control and reach into all of the southern Somalia, it would reach them.

Dont try to change history, they were at war with us and ICU attacked us during cade musa time.

 

[Idilinaa]

I stopped taking you seriously after you claimed ICU held democratic elections. As some have pointed out, you use sources selectively and usually old sources when newer ones are available that don’t help your points. Have some shame

It was reported that they were pushing for democratic elections, which is true. They weren't there for long so they weren't able to hold the elections. But the fact they were pushing for elections showed further how they were trying to give power back to the people.

Old sources take precedents, the closer the source/reporting is to the event in question , the greater the reliability and accuracy.

If something happened in year 1921 and a guy who lived at that time wrote about it vs an author who didn't wrote about it 2020, which one would you prefer?

Also it's hilarious to accuse me of selective sources. Because my sources are mixed , books articles from Somali authors, interviews , eye witness testimonies and then also outside foreign sources like the newspapers, classified documents etc.
I mix it and try to find corroboration, not only to strengthen their reliability but i also know if i use a single say source yall will say ''Its propaganda from this and that'' .


For example i showed classified documents that reveled how all these insurgents were proxies for Ethiopia .

14 leading SNM were invited by Mengistu's Colonel Moges and housed by Ethiopia funded and armed to kick start their insurgencies, and carry out the plan of secession coined by the Ethiopian general.

Col. Moges was pretty much organizing everything, replacing certain SSDF and SNM leaders replacing them with someone else, putting them together etc.

Why do you think the Isaaq Elders in the North said that the SNM was ''Plunging the north into desolation and chaos while they themselves were living comfortably abroad''

It because they were based in England and Ethiopia were they organized themselves and first popped up.

But i also showed an interview from a leader into those insurgents literally confessing to being proxy for Ethiopia and taking commands from them.

SNM leaders shamelessly brag about it on television as well

''Then i ensured Mengistu i will obey his commands''


During this time might i add, the Ethiopian government was issuing genocidal decree's on destroying Muslims and collectively punishing them.



and was hatching out plans on how to implement Isreal style ethnic cleansing on Ogadenians



And these traitors went and locked arms and took on orders from them to bring chaos and destruction to their country. And are actively trying to politically leverage the destruction they created

There is nothing they can say that will justify this betrayal, you can point at the Somali government all you want but nothing will justify going to a foreign historical enemy to fight your own people.

Our ancestors never sought support from Ethiopia, no matter what dispute we had internally amongst eachother.

You will find me showing even letters and mission statements sent out by those insurgents as well.

So yeah there is nothing selective about it.

And also as far as Abdullahi Yusuf goes he literally confesses to a lot of in his own crimes and treason in his Somali written book that others have shared and when he was exiled and in his last years before passing in 2011 interview he regretted supporting the Ethiopia backed 2006 invasion but here you are defending him to slander ICU.