The key to success for any Somali hungry for it is to live in a city with very few or no Somalis.

[Tramo]

You have to admit, the hip hop ain't helping

I think it's a combination of low IQ, bad influences, and an expectation to act a certain way

even preppy white kids are into hip hop culture. they don't kill each there cuz they don't need to, that would be silly

drop anyone in the ghetto with no way out and a war on drugs and there's really only 1 outcome. like @CaptainMajid said, the culture is merely a symptom

 

[CaptainMajid]

You have to admit, the hip hop ain't helping

I think it's a combination of low IQ, bad influences, and an expectation to act a certain way

I see that with kids, cant discount it. Just disagree that its the root cause.

Its s much more damaging that for kids that live in poor neighborhoods, than those with the class/background advantages. You will see depraved activity from well-off types at young ages too, but they can afford to f*ck up, if you live in public housing you cant.

 

[VixR]

So you gonna ignore the fact that your parents taught you to avoid other Somalis?

Wallahi, I understand them now, and I feel like part of it was a symptom of the war too. I can see the differences in family members I've met in my mothers' and fathers' end.

 

[Bahal]

Wallahi, I understand them now, and I feel like part of it was a symptom of the war too. I can see the differences in family members I've met in my mothers' and fathers' end.

 

[CaptainMajid]

Despite all the talk about root causes, I think the main takeaway is that if you want any chance of social mobility you have very little leeway to mess up.

So maybe the OP's main point holds true.


Living away from the hood and interacting with people from more well-off backgrounds decreases the chances you will screw up

 

[Bahal]

even preppy white kids are into hip hop culture. they don't kill each there cuz they don't need to, that would be silly

drop anyone in the ghetto with no way out and a war on drugs and there's really only 1 outcome. like @CaptainMajid said, the culture is merely a symptom

What I'm saying is these niggas really bought into that life sxb, like they're really bout it

The cadaan kids ain't moving work but that Somali kid legit thinks crack is gonna make him rich. Is it because he's retarded and can't figure out it isn't worth it?

 

[Jubba_Man]

Also the children of Nigerian immigrants in the States, often assimilate into AA culture rapidly. Because they are close to AAs in history/looks, you will often find it difficult to distinguish a second-generation Nigerian-American from an AA. Yet the former do very well. This goes against the "Somalis are doing terrible cause of hiphop/jamaicans/" blah blah. Class and culture dont always correlate.

Not from what I have seen. Nigerians benefit heavily from AA by using the "black" identity, but when it comes to social groups and fraternizing they distinguish themselves from the "akata". I know enough of them to know that they heavily look down on AAs and other western blacks.

 

[Tramo]

What I'm saying is these niggas really bought into that life sxb, like they're really bout it

The cadaan kids ain't moving work but that Somali kid legit thinks crack is gonna make him rich. Is it because he's retarded and can't figure out it isn't worth it?

probably, and also because he sees the older niggas in his hood pushing bentleys

 

[Jubba_Man]

ishaad farta ka riday walahi, been saying this forever, deflecting to hip hop iyo wax loo jeedin is beyond out of touch

even preppy white kids are into hip hop culture. they don't kill each there cuz they don't need to, that would be silly

drop anyone in the ghetto with no way out and a war on drugs and there's really only 1 outcome. like @CaptainMajid said, the culture is merely a symptom

Music helps shape one's values, culture, and identity. It certainly has its effects at the subconscious level and this is well documented. It's ridiculous for one to believe some kid listening to this new horrific "drill" music produced by these Chicago goons glorifying murdering innocent people in daylight would have absolutely no effect on their psyche and identity.


You can cite exceptions to every rule. There are professionals at the top of their career who get strung out on coke everyday. Does that mean you would turn a blind eye to your kid indulging in that dangerous drug?

 

[CaptainMajid]

Not from what I have seen. Nigerians benefit heavily from AA by using the "black" identity, but when it comes to social groups and fraternizing they distinguish themselves from the "akata". I know enough of them to know that they heavily look down on AAs and other western blacks.

I'm talking about 2nd/3rd generation Nigerians. They are definitely more assimilated into AA culture than Somalis are. Much higher rates of intermarriage/ relationships with AAs, much higher attendance at HBCUs, and involvement with AAs in general. The tension/attitude you mention sometimes emerges, but it doesnt discount the former.

Its the same with Caribbean Americans as well, who will have rivalry/tensions with AAs and sometimes look down on them. But their children rapidly assimilate into AA culture and they intermarry/date attend same social functions.

Have you ever lived in the States? Check out PG County/DMV or any HBCU and it will be hard to argue Nigerian Americans do not assimilate or adopt AA culture. Theres many in AA fraternities too, which Ive never heard of from Somalis.

 

[CaptainMajid]

BTW for all the tropes about BLM Somalis, the actual co-founder of the organization is a Nigerian-American

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opal_Tometi

Read her background and you can see she comes from a solidly middle-class background, yet is clearly assimilated into AA culture.

 

[Tramo]

Music helps shape one's values, culture, and identity. It certainly has its effects at the subconscious level and this is well documented. It's ridiculous for one to believe some kid listening to this new horrific "drill" music produced by these Chicago goons glorifying murdering innocent people in daylight would have absolutely no effect on their psyche and identity.


You can cite exceptions to every rule. There are professionals at the top of their career who get strung out on coke everyday. Does that mean you would turn a blind eye to your kid indulging in that dangerous drug?

so by that logic, metalheads are more likely to be murderous necrorapists and r&b fans are more likely to be unfaithful to their spouses. correlation does not equal causation sxb, cmon. ur example of drill is a product of the hood, not the other way around

 

[Jubba_Man]

I'm talking about 2nd/3rd generation Nigerians. They are definitely more assimilated into AA culture than Somalis are. Much higher rates of intermarriage/ relationships with AAs, much higher attendance at HBCUs, and involvement with AAs in general. The tension/attitude you mention sometimes emerges, but it doesnt discount the former.

Its the same with Caribbean Americans as well, who will have rivalry/tensions with AAs and sometimes look down on them. But their children rapidly assimilate into AA culture and they intermarry/date attend same social functions.

Have you ever lived in the States? Check out PG County/DMV or any HBCU and it will be hard to argue Nigerian Americans do not assimilate or adopt AA culture. Theres many in AA fraternities too, which Ive never heard of from Somalis.

Do you have any official statistics on this? Yes, I have former colleagues and associates who are from across the border and their beliefs and values are largely the same. Many of their families are quite wealthy or upper middle-class, and they would be damned if they allowed some AA from a broken family with no networth to inherit from them. I'm not discounting your experiences at all, but I just don't this is the norm in the country at large outside of the bubble you are living in the DMV, just like this thriving Somali middle class you speak of.

 

[Insomnia]

The difference for Somalis, is the vast majority arrived as refugees in all Western countries. Very few arrived with skills/background that are well-adapted for the countries they settled in or a history of education. Combine this to where they settled (public housing) its not really surprising that social mobility is low for now.

For all the huge emphasis you guys place in culture, the amusing thing is some of the best-performing Somalis Ive seen in the States live in the DMV - an area with a big AA population. Many of them though are children of guys who arrived in the States as university students or embassy officials. They also grew up in middle-class settings. They are often very close to AA's, listen to hiphop etc, yet are uniformly better achieving.


The difference in class and parental experiences play huge roles. It seems its comforting for some of you to believe its all about effort. Real world says different

That example only counts for Somalis who have parents with relatively high social status and wealth to begin with, they can afford to engage in Western degeneracy yet have still leverage to achieve higher.

Culture and whom you socialize with is important for the people at the bottom of the social-economic ladder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_capital .


There is no way else to achieve higher social mobility collectively. If you are all copying waste hood culture of gang bang, rapping popping hennesy bottles and Saying ''f*ck SCHOOL'' ''GANG GANG'' and get hollered into prison cells en mass , how can you move up the ladder?

You know if you have an education and are interested in organizing and being punctual and having table manners, or if you do outdoor sports, have hobbies, or into nature (planting trees etc), there are some "folks" that call you White. "Oh he is a white person" and peer pressure you back to underclass status.

This started out as a great post but fell flat since you tried to vindicate the uncomfortable impact of culture and socialization.

Culture led social mobility is how communities thrives not just anecdotal select individuals here and there.

 

[bluebird]

so by that logic, metalheads are more likely to be murderous necrorapists and r&b fans are more likely to be unfaithful to their spouses. correlation does not equal causation sxb, cmon. ur example of drill is a product of the hood, not the other way around

that's true, but it still negatively influences those who are on the border and glorifies that lifestyle to them.this is especially the case for somali kids. It's not their culture but they come here as fobs, listen to the music and next thing you know they're chanting "I get money, money,money,money". wax kale kama fakarayaan balaayada. Old school rap is ok and actually has nice flow but if we're talking the new age one it's pointless, redundant and pushes vapidness

 

[Tramo]

that's true, but it still negatively influences those who are on the border and glorifies that lifestyle to them.this is especially the case for somali kids. It's not their culture but they come here as fobs, listen to the music and next thing you know they're chanting "I get money, money,money,money". wax kale kama fakarayaan balaayada. Old school rap is ok and actually has nice flow but if we're talking the new age one it's pointless, redundant and pushes vapidness

i actually agree, it probably might affect those on the borderline like a suburban kid with friends in the hood or something. but u gotta understand, somalis in the west are for the most part already immersed in those environments, they live in some of the worst neighbourhoods

the ones who get into trouble would have done so, hip hop or no hip hop. who needs hip hop when the stories they tell play out in front of u every day

 

[Jubba_Man]

so by that logic, metalheads are more likely to be murderous necrorapists and r&b fans are more likely to be unfaithful to their spouses. correlation does not equal causation sxb, cmon. ur example of drill is a product of the hood, not the other way around

Think about this: how exactly did this notion of side-chicks become a cultural phenomenon and infidelity rates soared within a certain community over the past 2 decades? You now have a lot more women being silently accepting of arrangements they would have never tolerated just 20 years ago. Did music create that? Of course not, but it certainly helped normalize it and make it culturally palatable. The effects of that music has been quite clear.




The thing about metalheads and that sub-culture is that, at the end of the day, that is really all it is. "White" culture is not synonymous with that. It is not a lifestyle. That's what makes it so easy for one to discard of it after listening to it. On the other hand, when the average person thinks about black AA culture what is the first thing that comes to mind? Hip hop. It forms such a large part of that culture to the point that kids and people who don't enjoy listening to it are ostracized and not really seen as "black".


So as far as that analogy is concerned, apples and oranges sxb. You're right that the music is not created in a vacuum and the product of a particular vacuum, but there is such a thing as a feedback loop. The music, in turn, helps create even more dysfunction and chaos, which in turn helps create even more of this music and your feedback loop is complete.

 

[Burhan]

It must be Canada problem mostly. For some reason, Somali families who opted to move there in early 1990s had no plan to raise their kids as Somalis with culture. The US has many successful stories by comparison for Somalis who opted to stay put at the same time period in late 1990s. Somalis in Minnesota made inroads into all facets of profession and you can now find:

- Somali doctors
- Somali Engineers
- Somali Truck Owners
- Somali businesses
- Somali Legislator
- Somali lawyers
- Two decent Somali malls
- Somali Quranic Schools that teach culture well
- Somali immigration officers
- Nurses, Dental hygienist, lab technicians

Along side these success stories, you will see alcoholics and drug addicts. They sure don't influence the Somali image in Minnesota because the good Somalis beat them to shaping the Somali image in the psyche of Minnesotans who matter. From top government officials to Academia, nothing but praise.

There is benefit to an established community which has variety of professionals. Any Somali can chart their future and curve a place for them in any city Somalis live. But Canada, the Somalis who went there were low class or something, neither cultured well in the nomadic tradition that instills dignity in oneself nor anything else that made someone live a decent life without joining the bottom of the communities they chose to live in.

I am sure there are success Somali stories in Canada, but their stories don't match the one in America. And please, don't even bring up England and Euro-trash Somalis, these ones are better off wiped out including their religious fucks.

 

[CaptainMajid]

Too sum up your post . ''Social mobility''.

That example only counts for Somalis who have parents with relatively high social status and wealth to begin with, they can afford to engage in Western degeneracy yet have still leverage to achieve higher. because of social mobility.

Culture and whom you socialize with is important for the people at the bottom of the social-economic ladder. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_capital .


There is no way else to achieve higher social mobility collectively. If you are all copying waste jamaican culture of gang bang, rapping popping hennesy bottles and Saying ''f*ck SCHOOL'' ''GANG GANG'' and get hollered into prison cells en mass , how can you move up the ladder?

You know if you have an education and are interested in organizing and being punctual and having table manners, or if you do outdoor sports, have hobbies, or into nature (planting trees etc), there are some "folks" that call you White. "Oh he is a white person"

This started out as a great post but fell flat since you tried to vindicate the uncomfortable reality of culture and socialization.

Culture led social mobility is how communities thrives not just anecdotal select individuals here and there.

I agree that cultural capital is important for poor people. If you see my other posts in this thread, I basically echoed the same thread.

However, cultural capital is not easy to acquire for people arrived in Somalis position. You guys only hone down on "hiphop" but I think Somali geeljire culture in general translates poorly to the West. Its why Somalis who arrived as refugees uniformly perform poorly in these early generations, even in places w/o "blacks" and major hip-hop influence.

Also to show you why narrowing it down to "black culture" etc is a very simple argument, consider this:

High school students from Black immigrant populations enroll in selective colleges at a higher rate than U.S.-born Blacks and Whites, because they have greater access to resources that influence postsecondary success, say the authors of a new study.


In their new study, published in the journal Sociology of Education, Dr. Pamela R. Bennett, an assistant professor of sociology at Johns Hopkins University, and Dr. Amy Lutz, an assistant professor of sociology at Syracuse University, tracked the enrollment rates for White, native Black and immigrant Black high school students into community colleges, historically Black institutions, four-year non-selective and four-year selective colleges and universities.


“The most important finding of the study is the [reality] that that both third- and later-generation African-Americans and first- and second-generation (immigrant) Blacks are more likely than similar Whites to attend college, including selective colleges,” says Bennett who is the report’s lead researcher.




Their findings reveal that immigrant Blacks or Blacks with immigrant origins enroll in all postsecondary institutions at a greater rate than native-born Blacks and Whites. Moreover, the report indicates that selective colleges enroll nearly four times as many Black immigrants, at 9.2 percent, than native-born Blacks, at 2.4 percent, and Whites, at 7.3 percent. Enrollment among both groups of Blacks in two-year colleges and four-year non-selective schools were virtually equal, teetering, respectively, at 41 percent and 30 percent.


But immigrant Blacks do not value education more, and they are not outperforming native Blacks academically, says Bennett.


“When we compare immigrant Blacks to African-Americans from similar family socioeconomic backgrounds, we find no significant differences between them in their chances of attending college,” says Bennett. “The overall differences we observe are due to differences in their family resources, not because immigrant Blacks are out-performing African-Americans.”


Adds Bennett: “Our findings indicate that [immigrant Blacks] have greater resources, in the form of family structure and private school attendance that are universally helpful in providing opportunities to go to college.”


According to the data, both groups of Blacks are disadvantaged relative to Whites, yet there are important differences between native and immigrant Blacks that could explain the prevalence of immigrant Blacks at selective schools. A larger percentage of immigrant Blacks than native Blacks come from two-parent families and private schools. And nationally both Afro-Caribbeans and Africans have higher household incomes than native Blacks, while African immigrants have higher levels of educational attainment than both native Blacks and Whites.


http://diverseeducation.com/article/12419/


To sum it up, if you wont read, this shows that AA's are outperformed by Caribbeans and Africans in the United States. But more interestingly, the study finds they value education at similar rates. They attribute the difference in the United States, to income and resources of African immigrants.

The irony of all this, is the same "Jamaican culture" you are isolating as the cause of the ills, hasn't harmed Caribbeans outcomes in the United States. Are they simply making better choices there? Dont tell me its because Caribbean-Americans do not assimilate into AA culture, which is patently false.

@Jubba_Man read this post as well.

 

[Gambar]

It must be Canada problem mostly. For some reason, Somali families who opted to move there in early 1990s had no plan to raise their kids as Somalis with culture. The US has many successful stories by comparison for Somalis who opted to stay put at the same time period in late 1990s. Somalis in Minnesota made inroads into all facets of profession and you can now find:

- Somali doctors
- Somali Engineers
- Somali Truck Owners
- Somali businesses
- Somali Legislator
- Somali lawyers
- Two decent Somali malls
- Somali Quranic Schools that teach culture well
- Somali immigration officers
- Nurses, Dental hygienist, lab technicians

Along side these success stories, you will see alcoholics and drug addicts. They sure don't influence the Somali image in Minnesota because the good Somalis beat them to shaping the Somali image in the psyche of Minnesotans who matter. From top government officials to Academia, nothing but praise.

There is benefit to an established community which has variety of professionals. Any Somali can chart their future and curve a place for them in any city Somalis live. But Canada, the Somalis who went there were low class or something, neither cultured well in the nomadic tradition that instills dignity in oneself nor anything else that made someone live a decent life without joining the bottom of the communities they chose to live in.

I am sure there are success Somali stories in Canada, but their stories don't match the one in America. And please, don't even bring up England and Euro-trash Somalis, these ones are better off wiped out including their religious fucks.

A Somali Canadian is the Minister of Immigration and Refugees, it's safe to say that position trumps everything you just named.